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Self-destruct option for outposts
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Fish Hunter
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-10-14 03:05:20 UTC
No to total destruction of outposts

Would be nice though if there was a way to change the outpost type (race) and a way to change the upgrades once installed.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-10-14 03:20:32 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
OP, if I'm unsubbed and someone blows the outpost I have all my crap in, what reason do I have to ever come back to the game?

If you put all your eggs in one basket like that what reason does CCP have for protecting your stupidity?


What reason do they have to permanently delete most of my assets with absolutely no possibility of me doing anything to prevent it whatsoever?

Or to actively discourage people from living in nullsec even further?

What, pray-tell, do you suggest CCP do in the event, that someday not far down the road, conceivably EVERY nullsec system has an outpost already? just up the limit to 2 per system? then what happens when every system has 2?

stations were originally designed like titans, with the thought that the sheer logistics of them would prevent a wide number from being made. that has proven to not be the case, Providence being a prime example.

As for deleting all/most fo your assets? who the **** keeps more than half their stuff actually *in* null? seems like a risk/reward issue there.

And besides, I see literally ZERO reason for POS's to be destructible, using the arguement you made for outposts, i mean, if my entire corp decides to go out into deep null with all of our stuff and put it in a tower, what right does someone have to come and delete it all if we choose to stop playing fro a couple months?
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#23 - 2014-10-15 13:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Miner Amarr
Sigras wrote:
If I were to do this I would want to be able to cancel it at any time, but it only takes 72 hours, and those hours pause if it's in RF. This means that if you were an attacking force, you could capture the station and cancel the self destruct.

It also solves the moronic spy problem because presumably there would be logs of who pressed the self destruct button, and who stopped it.


The point of not being able to cancel the self destruction is to also deny the ability to cancel the self destruction to an invading force, successfully denying them the outpost.

Also knowing that outposts are destructible, don't put all your stuff in them. Knowing that POSes are destructible, don't put all your stuff in them. Knowing that ships are destructible, don't put all your stuff in them. That is, if you don't want to risk them being deleted.

I'd rather have all my stuff destroyed, than giving an outpost for free, which takes enourmous amounts of isk and time to build, to an invading force.


edit: to dampen the awoxing problem, the self destruction process could require half a freighter load of inexpensive stuff. Or a password. Or at least 2 directors required to initiate the process.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#24 - 2014-10-15 15:13:06 UTC
so you either need an Awoxxer with a freighter (or a friend with a freighter), a stolen password or 2 director level spies...

None of these are very tricky
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#25 - 2014-10-15 20:27:57 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
so you either need an Awoxxer with a freighter (or a friend with a freighter), a stolen password or 2 director level spies...

None of these are very tricky


Just use a holding corporation and put in min 2 and max 3 persons. That way you don't lose access to outposts like PL did.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#26 - 2014-10-15 20:36:45 UTC
and the proper director level spies wouldnt have access?

That said, hell i once accidentally ordered an alliance destroyed (remember how Nulli wasnt always called nulli?) because i told the wrong friend of mine that "something aught to be done about people who dont keep their word"... I didnt even know my friend was hooked up like that.

And if I, a third rate pilot who loves his high sec ("riskless" etc.) incursions way to much to ever properly go PVPing, can order an alliance disbanded BY ACCIDENT i shudder to think what someone Mittens or my buddy (who knows he had such scary friends???) could do with something like this...
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#27 - 2014-10-15 20:40:03 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
and the proper director level spies wouldnt have access?

That said, hell i once accidentally ordered an alliance destroyed (remember how Nulli wasnt always called nulli?) because i told the wrong friend of mine that "something aught to be done about people who dont keep their word"... I didnt even know my friend was hooked up like that.

And if I, a third rate pilot who loves his high sec ("riskless" etc.) incursions way to much to ever properly go PVPing, can order an alliance disbanded BY ACCIDENT i shudder to think what someone Mittens or my buddy (who knows he had such scary friends???) could do with something like this...


No, director level spies don't have access to the holding corporation. Only CEOs have access to it.
That's how most alliances protect themselves from being disbanded, and what band of brothers should of done.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#28 - 2014-10-15 20:51:56 UTC
How about this instead.......

1.) Allow outposts to be seriously damaged requiring minerals, etc to get services per part back online.
2.) Self destruct can be a password coded intiation for CEO and any 1 director.
3.) A self destruct would cause a full complete shutdown of all outpost services (including locked out of hangars)
4.) Password(s) required for shutdown of self destruct (lol can ransom the password if station is lost to invaders)

-or-

for a fully destructible outpost add an emergency Interbus transportation of goods to destination of choice per character. (Isk sink, based on m3 to be transported) only useable after a self destruct has been intiated.

-or-
well Idk....like many others speaking out....your posts are giving me a Headache OP every time i see you name attached to an idea.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#29 - 2014-10-15 20:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Miner Amarr
Max Deveron wrote:
How about this instead.......

1.) Allow outposts to be seriously damaged requiring minerals, etc to get services per part back online.
2.) Self destruct can be a password coded intiation for CEO and any 1 director.
3.) A self destruct would cause a full complete shutdown of all outpost services (including locked out of hangars)
4.) Password(s) required for shutdown of self destruct (lol can ransom the password if station is lost to invaders)

-or-

for a fully destructible outpost add an emergency Interbus transportation of goods to destination of choice per character. (Isk sink, based on m3 to be transported) only useable after a self destruct has been intiated.

-or-
well Idk....like many others speaking out....your posts are giving me a Headache OP every time i see you name attached to an idea.


So you don't like my name? If that's what is giving everyone a headache then I can use an alt, no problem.
Also I like point 4, it gives a lot of control over the fate of the outpost to the owners. It also gives potential for many scam situations.... "the deal was to give you the password, it was not to give you the password before the self destruction is complete... lol". It would also make for a fun game where opposing alliances challenge eachother to cancel the self-destruction at the last second. Bonus points if there are many people and assets in the station. The risk being that something goes wrong (lost connection, massive fleet jumping in causing lag spike, shaky hands etc).

About point 3... I think it should require the same, if not more, the amount of minerals to build an outpost in order reactivate the outpost after a self destruction.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#30 - 2014-10-15 21:12:10 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Give outpost owners the option to destroy their own outposts in order to deny the enemy access to the outpost.
Anything inside will be destroyed. Players inside will be podded (or forced to undock).

To prevent attackers from destroying your assets too fast after conquering the station just use a timer.
The self-destruction process should take 168 hours, and be possible to cancel it within the first 2 hours.

Scenario 1: an invading force is about to conquer the outpost, self-destruction is started. 2 hours later the outpost is conquered but the self-destruction process is unavoidable. After 1 week, enough to take your own assets out, the outpost self-destructs and the attackers will need to build their own outpost if they want one.

Scenario 2: an invading force conquers the outpost and wants to destroy your assets. You have 1 week to get your assets out and the attackers cannot stop the self-destruction. This makes it very unattractive for an invading force to destroy an outpost because the chances of destroying assets is small, while the loss is huge.


EDIT: also make it a HUGE explosion, I like fireworks.


Scenario 3: Awoxer gets into appropriate corp position and pushes the Big Red Button - on all outposts he can get to.

While I like the overall idea of allowing them to be destructible, the main draw back is that it might have the opposite effect and create a disincentive to keep things in the station and thus have an incentive to re-take the station.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#31 - 2014-10-15 21:13:53 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:
Give outpost owners the option to destroy their own outposts in order to deny the enemy access to the outpost.
Anything inside will be destroyed. Players inside will be podded (or forced to undock).

To prevent attackers from destroying your assets too fast after conquering the station just use a timer.
The self-destruction process should take 168 hours, and be possible to cancel it within the first 2 hours.

Scenario 1: an invading force is about to conquer the outpost, self-destruction is started. 2 hours later the outpost is conquered but the self-destruction process is unavoidable. After 1 week, enough to take your own assets out, the outpost self-destructs and the attackers will need to build their own outpost if they want one.

Scenario 2: an invading force conquers the outpost and wants to destroy your assets. You have 1 week to get your assets out and the attackers cannot stop the self-destruction. This makes it very unattractive for an invading force to destroy an outpost because the chances of destroying assets is small, while the loss is huge.


EDIT: also make it a HUGE explosion, I like fireworks.


Scenario 3: Awoxer gets into appropriate corp position and pushes the Big Red Button - on all outposts he can get to.

While I like the overall idea of allowing them to be destructible, the main draw back is that it might have the opposite effect and create a disincentive to keep things in the station and thus have an incentive to re-take the station.


The solution to that has been laid out in the posts above.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2014-10-15 21:14:59 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Bertral wrote:
Please stop posting.
Thanks.


A goon crying. Means I'm on the right track.


We would abuse the living **** out of this with spies. Don't give us these kinds of tools.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#33 - 2014-10-15 21:16:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:
Bertral wrote:
Please stop posting.
Thanks.


A goon crying. Means I'm on the right track.


We would abuse the living **** out of this with spies. Don't give us these kinds of tools.


It only worked with Band of Brothers. Now the universe has wised up and started using holding corporations.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2014-10-15 21:19:21 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:


The solution to that has been laid out in the posts above.



Scenario 4: Someone who does have the relevant access, for whatever reason, pushes the button as they flip sides/peace out of the game/are drunk. Just like what happened to BoB. And goonfleet. And however many other groups this happened to.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#35 - 2014-10-15 21:19:44 UTC
no, no....its i think your approach to typing up an idea and how the community perspective is.

You will see i have disagreed with you on at least one other of your postings. This though i decided to be a bit more constructive on because I believe some changes are desperaty needed in several areas.
I may never ever return to nullsec on any of my characters....but i believe to fix some things...we as a community need to fix highsec as the lower newbish area its supposed to be still fraguht with some danger.....
But to fix highsec....we need to fix nullsec....not fixing nullsec and making it engaging, mysterious, wonderous, and fun again I strongly believe will eventually kill EvE.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2014-10-15 21:19:49 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:
Bertral wrote:
Please stop posting.
Thanks.


A goon crying. Means I'm on the right track.


We would abuse the living **** out of this with spies. Don't give us these kinds of tools.


It only worked with Band of Brothers. Now the universe has wised up and started using holding corporations.


Which have also been nuked.

GIA will get access to other peoples stations and will push the button.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#37 - 2014-10-15 21:21:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:
Bertral wrote:
Please stop posting.
Thanks.


A goon crying. Means I'm on the right track.


We would abuse the living **** out of this with spies. Don't give us these kinds of tools.


It only worked with Band of Brothers. Now the universe has wised up and started using holding corporations.


Which have also been nuked.

GIA will get access to other peoples stations and will push the button.


Well it takes at least a week to SD the outpost, plenty of time to stop it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2014-10-15 21:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Miner Amarr wrote:


Well it takes at least a week to SD the outpost, plenty of time to stop it.


Revoke docking rights, remove everyone from corp.

No matter how you try here we will get in, **** you over, spin you around and go in for seconds.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#39 - 2014-10-15 21:25:52 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:


Well it takes at least a week to SD the outpost, plenty of time to stop it.



hmmm, honestly i think 168 hrs is a little harsh....72 hrs as once stated earlier should be more than sufficient i think. As im sure an SD wouldnt be intiated by a CEO and a Director unless they were sure they were going to lose it.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#40 - 2014-10-15 21:28:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
baltec1 wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:


Well it takes at least a week to SD the outpost, plenty of time to stop it.


Revoke docking rights, remove everyone from corp.

No matter how you try here we will get in, **** you over, spin you around and go in for seconds.



could be very true...which is why i proposed the dual password idea to even start one....the password only a CEO knows.
and the one for Directors.

Hostile take over of corps could possibly circumvent this i guess....unless such a CEO is intelligent enough to kepp all the shares to himself.
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