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Tengus overpowered?

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#21 - 2014-10-14 12:07:57 UTC
Hey, if we could ask goonswarm to field 500 Drakes all of a sudden heavy missiles are overpowered again..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-10-14 14:11:50 UTC
PVP is OP

Hey guys.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-10-14 14:15:01 UTC
Every Ship will alpha you when you got the right mass of players. It´s not a question of the ship type its a question of the amount of players. And why is it op when 200 players shoot at you and you die, its okay because there are 199 player more than you.

-1 vote 4 close
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2014-10-14 16:52:35 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Every Ship will alpha you when you got the right mass of players. It´s not a question of the ship type its a question of the amount of players. And why is it op when 200 players shoot at you and you die, its okay because there are 199 player more than you.

-1 vote 4 close


Its the fact that its a cruiser with a bigger buffer than most battleships and comes with hac firepower, cap stability, perma prop mod and a rather small sig. Its only a question of time before t3 are nerfed now, we all know it is on the way.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-10-14 17:27:16 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Simple solution.
Reduce max fleet size to around 120 people.


Instead of shoving 8 fleet in a system you'd shove 16.


The only people really affected by this would be Logi because you can't broadcast for rep to the other fleet. Browsing through a list of 200+ names to find who the hell needs rep now would be such a pain in the ass.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2014-10-14 17:50:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Its the fact that its a cruiser with a bigger buffer than most battleships and comes with hac firepower, cap stability, perma prop mod and a rather small sig. Its only a question of time before t3 are nerfed now, we all know it is on the way.


I am not looking forward to this day. Because, while you can counter massive BS fleets with fewer Tengus, you cannot counter massive BS fleets with fewer BS.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2014-10-14 18:26:26 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its the fact that its a cruiser with a bigger buffer than most battleships and comes with hac firepower, cap stability, perma prop mod and a rather small sig. Its only a question of time before t3 are nerfed now, we all know it is on the way.


I am not looking forward to this day. Because, while you can counter massive BS fleets with fewer Tengus, you cannot counter massive BS fleets with fewer BS.


If CCP nerf logistics (they have to if they want smaller groups in null to stand any chance) then smaller gangs of high DPS close range cruisers can be a thing for dealing with big BS blobs.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#28 - 2014-10-14 18:47:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Its the fact that its a cruiser with a bigger buffer than most battleships and comes with hac firepower, cap stability, perma prop mod and a rather small sig. Its only a question of time before t3 are nerfed now, we all know it is on the way.


I am not looking forward to this day. Because, while you can counter massive BS fleets with fewer Tengus, you cannot counter massive BS fleets with fewer BS.


If CCP nerf logistics (they have to if they want smaller groups in null to stand any chance) then smaller gangs of high DPS close range cruisers can be a thing for dealing with big BS blobs.


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-10-14 18:51:33 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll


Hence the need to nerf logi so they can actually hurt us.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#30 - 2014-10-14 19:01:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll


Hence the need to nerf logi so they can actually hurt us.


If by "hurt us" you mean that they can wipe out your fleet and keep their claimed system for which they fought hard, nerfed logi could help. If by "hurt us" you mean "you killed a couple of BS/Cruiser/Battlecruiser/Bomber/T3, we take the system anyways because we can just replace them with more", nerfed logi are completely irrelevant. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-10-14 19:04:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll


Hence the need to nerf logi so they can actually hurt us.


How many BS worth of DPS do you envision should be enough to break through "nerfed" logi reps?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2014-10-14 19:05:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll


Hence the need to nerf logi so they can actually hurt us.


If by "hurt us" you mean that they can wipe out your fleet and keep their claimed system for which they fought hard, nerfed logi could help. If by "hurt us" you mean "you killed a couple of BS/Cruiser/Battlecruiser/Bomber/T3, we take the system anyways because we can just replace them with more", nerfed logi are completely irrelevant. Roll


I mean anything from killing a dozen to killing every last one of us, right now they cant even scratch us. We need to get back to tactics meaning something in a fight rather than he who brings the most gets a flawless victory.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2014-10-14 19:10:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll


Hence the need to nerf logi so they can actually hurt us.


How many BS worth of DPS do you envision should be enough to break through "nerfed" logi reps?


50 suicide blaster raxes should be able to cause a good deal of damage when dumped on a baltec fleet at 0. Sure you probably won't win the grid but you will have caused a lot of damage and in a war of attrition causing more damage to the enemy has won many wars in the past in this game before logistics became a big thing.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#34 - 2014-10-14 19:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
baltec1 wrote:
50 suicide blaster raxes should be able to cause a good deal of damage when dumped on a baltec fleet at 0. Sure you probably won't win the grid but you will have caused a lot of damage and in a war of attrition causing more damage to the enemy has won many wars in the past in this game before logistics became a big thing.


I wonder who's suffering from attrition here. I remember the days in Curse in G-0 when we day in/day out Bomber Bombed TEST and later CFC during their stay there. None of them left or showed any sign of attrition, however, we couldn't make proper ISK to replace our lost bombers. Not to mention that our bombers were worth as much as 3-4 ships we bombed. Not exactly wearing. And now imagine a small sov holder, who has to pay sov bills and make money in camped systems, fighting against an entity with system independent income (renting), larger numbers and vast replacement capabilties. That's not exactly the attrition I think you are talking about. Roll

*me thinks the topic is drifting off-grid*

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2014-10-14 19:29:42 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
50 suicide blaster raxes should be able to cause a good deal of damage when dumped on a baltec fleet at 0. Sure you probably won't win the grid but you will have caused a lot of damage and in a war of attrition causing more damage to the enemy has won many wars in the past in this game before logistics became a big thing.


I wonder who's suffering from attrition here. I remember the days in Curse in G-0 when we day in/day out Bomber Bombed TEST and later CFC during their stay there. None of them left or showed any sign of attrition, however, we couldn't make proper ISK to replace our lost bombers. Not to mention that our bombers were worth as much as 3-4 ships we bombed. Not exactly wearing. And now imagine a small sov holder, who has to pay sov bills and make money in camped systems, fighting against an entity with system independent income (renting), larger numbers and vast replacement capabilties. That's not exactly the attrition I think you are talking about. Roll

*me thinks the topic is drifting off-grid*


I'm going way back to the days of the old NC, BoB and ASCN. Venal stood for several years as a perpetual thorn in every empires side near it and the graveyard of superpowers.

As far as the subject goes, the tengu has been overpowered for years and is long overdue a repeated beating with the nerf bat.
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#36 - 2014-10-14 21:16:43 UTC
Heres a solution stop playing in giant idiot blobs. I assure you the game is alot more fun when you don't have to listen to 1 guy tell you what to do.

Fights under 20 are where its at. Anything above are usually full of morons who can't think for themself.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2014-10-14 21:49:39 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Heres a solution stop playing in giant idiot blobs. I assure you the game is alot more fun when you don't have to listen to 1 guy tell you what to do.

Fights under 20 are where its at. Anything above are usually full of morons who can't think for themself.


Us morons hold half of EVE and bring high sec to its knees whenever we feel like it.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#38 - 2014-10-14 22:17:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Heres a solution stop playing in giant idiot blobs. I assure you the game is alot more fun when you don't have to listen to 1 guy tell you what to do.

Fights under 20 are where its at. Anything above are usually full of morons who can't think for themself.


Us morons hold half of EVE and bring high sec to its knees whenever we feel like it.


Yes, please do so!

Finally you'll get the end credits of EVE and leave us.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Bullet Therapist
FT Cold Corporation
#39 - 2014-10-14 23:39:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullet Therapist
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll


Hence the need to nerf logi so they can actually hurt us.


How many BS worth of DPS do you envision should be enough to break through "nerfed" logi reps?


50 suicide blaster raxes should be able to cause a good deal of damage when dumped on a baltec fleet at 0. Sure you probably won't win the grid but you will have caused a lot of damage and in a war of attrition causing more damage to the enemy has won many wars in the past in this game before logistics became a big thing.


I would LOVE to see something like this used as a tactic. Sadly, though, I don't think we'll ever see it happen. The variety of viable tactics and ships on all scales needs to be looked at in detail by the developers.

Edit: I'd just like to clarify and say that I'm glad that most of the changes have taken place recently have gone through, but I feel like they're half done. Anything larger than a cruiser, though, feels like it's been left in the dust by the recent changes and battleships in particular just feel kind of useless in pvp. I know goonswarm has made good use of the Baltec fleet megathron, but everytime I've seen battleships land on grid in a fleet fight, they're massacred. Kiters and snipers are fun, but good old brawling is a hoot sometimes. The sad thing though is that brawlers just feel left in the dust.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2014-10-15 00:50:42 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That does not matter at all. If you want to keep your claimed system as a smaller sov entity without blue to bigger entities, it does not matter to you if you can kill one or two BS of the attacker through their logi rep. One or two killed BS are not even a consolation prize if you lose your system or important towers or structures. Roll


Hence the need to nerf logi so they can actually hurt us.


How many BS worth of DPS do you envision should be enough to break through "nerfed" logi reps?


50 suicide blaster raxes should be able to cause a good deal of damage when dumped on a baltec fleet at 0. Sure you probably won't win the grid but you will have caused a lot of damage and in a war of attrition causing more damage to the enemy has won many wars in the past in this game before logistics became a big thing.


I would LOVE to see something like this used as a tactic. Sadly, though, I don't think we'll ever see it happen. The variety of viable tactics and ships on all scales needs to be looked at in detail by the developers.

Edit: I'd just like to clarify and say that I'm glad that most of the changes have taken place recently have gone through, but I feel like they're half done. Anything larger than a cruiser, though, feels like it's been left in the dust by the recent changes and battleships in particular just feel kind of useless in pvp. I know goonswarm has made good use of the Baltec fleet megathron, but everytime I've seen battleships land on grid in a fleet fight, they're massacred. Kiters and snipers are fun, but good old brawling is a hoot sometimes. The sad thing though is that brawlers just feel left in the dust.


Come winter a lot of tactics are changing. Expect fleets to slow down, get heavier and be joined by nano logi carriers.
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