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Titan question.
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Rockstede
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-10-10 06:34:06 UTC
So being one of those players with limited playtime and thus will never bother heading for a titan, I jumped at the chance to try one out in the test server (they're giving them out for free at the moment).

So I hopped in my new shiny Avatar, undocked my alts carrier and promptly went to town with the doomsday weapon.


*Carrier goes boom*


Now this is where I need live titan pilots to correct me, I was under the impression that the super weapon (in this case the judgement) was affected by the resists of the target. My carrier is (or was in this case lol) fitted with a pith X type tank, my pilot has carrier 5 and in total he was sitting at about 2.6 million EHP.

In the log the titan showed an alpha strike of about 550,000 (which is obviously far less than the carriers total EHP).


What am I getting wrong here? Or is this just unique to the test server?
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#2 - 2014-10-10 06:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerie Evingod
Rockstede wrote:
So being one of those players with limited playtime and thus will never bother heading for a titan, I jumped at the chance to try one out in the test server (they're giving them out for free at the moment).

So I hopped in my new shiny Avatar, undocked my alts carrier and promptly went to town with the doomsday weapon.


*Carrier goes boom*


Now this is where I need live titan pilots to correct me, I was under the impression that the super weapon (in this case the judgement) was affected by the resists of the target. My carrier is (or was in this case lol) fitted with a pith X type tank, my pilot has carrier 5 and in total he was sitting at about 2.6 million EHP.

In the log the titan showed an alpha strike of about 550,000 (which is obviously far less than the carriers total EHP).


What am I getting wrong here? Or is this just unique to the test server?



550,000 is your raw HP (Shields + Armor + Structure). EHP of 2.6 millions doesnt mean anything against a doomsday, the avatars judgment only deals EM damage, so you need to calculate your pure EM EHP.

Edit: To exceed 3 million effective EM hitpoints you would need 2x EM hardeners (C-type or above) and a DC2.
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#3 - 2014-10-10 06:58:03 UTC
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#4 - 2014-10-10 07:04:21 UTC
The scary thing is that you somehow have another char trained on carriers and yet don't know what EHP really is.
Rockstede
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-10-10 07:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rockstede
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
The scary thing is that you somehow have another char trained on carriers and yet don't know what EHP really is.


In short, EHP is the sum of your armor shields and hull after resists are taken into account, not had to understand really. I'm sorry your unable to get past your own assumptions Roll

Enough with the trolls already, save that for General Discussion.



93,7 EM resist on shields, approximately 270,000 shield HP


6,3% remaining EM vulnerability with a 3000,000 EM strike by the titan should yield roughly 189000 damage?

I'm genuinely interested in learning the answer to this as it contradicts what I thought I knew about the game :)
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#6 - 2014-10-10 13:47:12 UTC
Rockstede wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
The scary thing is that you somehow have another char trained on carriers and yet don't know what EHP really is.


In short, EHP is the sum of your armor shields and hull after resists are taken into account, not had to understand really. I'm sorry your unable to get past your own assumptions Roll

Enough with the trolls already, save that for General Discussion.



93,7 EM resist on shields, approximately 270,000 shield HP


6,3% remaining EM vulnerability with a 3000,000 EM strike by the titan should yield roughly 189000 damage?

I'm genuinely interested in learning the answer to this as it contradicts what I thought I knew about the game :)



You didn't seem to understand why the log only showed 550,000 damage when you had 2.6m EHP. This implying you don't understand EHP.

Link your fit or move on because it's just speculation.

Archons don't have 270,000 shields, around 109,000 with all Vs.
Rockstede
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-10-10 14:51:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rockstede
Aerie Evingod wrote:

You didn't seem to understand why the log only showed 550,000 damage when you had 2.6m EHP. This implying you don't understand EHP.

Link your fit or move on because it's just speculation.

Archons don't have 270,000 shields, around 109,000 with all Vs.




1. I've already shown I understand how EHP functions and switched my argument to a simple yes or no question with set values, based entirely in the EM resist.


2. I never said it was an Archon.


The Fit:

The modules that affect EM resists - 1 x Pith X-type EM Hardener 1 x T2 EM hardener, 1 x Gist C-type adaptive invuln, a DCII and 3 x Blood PDS



so let's boil this down to a simple list.

Shield HP: 275094
EM resist: 89.66% - 2,660626 Shield HP vs EM

Armor HP 120000
EM Resist 57,5% - 282352 Armor HP vs EM

Structure HP 156250
EM Resist 60% - 390625 Structure HP vs EM



I sum that up to 3,333,604 Effective HP vs pure EM damage - minus the strike from the titan should leave 333,604 HP remaining.

As the carrier still went boom that leads me to believe that my math or understanding is borked somewhere.

If you are able to explain where I went wrong then please feel free to enlighten me.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2014-10-10 16:31:23 UTC
Rockstede wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:

You didn't seem to understand why the log only showed 550,000 damage when you had 2.6m EHP. This implying you don't understand EHP.

Link your fit or move on because it's just speculation.

Archons don't have 270,000 shields, around 109,000 with all Vs.




1. I've already shown I understand how EHP functions and switched my argument to a simple yes or no question with set values, based entirely in the EM resist.


2. I never said it was an Archon.


The Fit:

The modules that affect EM resists - 1 x Pith X-type EM Hardener 1 x T2 EM hardener, 1 x Gist C-type adaptive invuln, a DCII and 3 x Blood PDS



so let's boil this down to a simple list.

Shield HP: 275094
EM resist: 89.66% - 2,660626 Shield HP vs EM

Armor HP 120000
EM Resist 57,5% - 282352 Armor HP vs EM

Structure HP 156250
EM Resist 60% - 390625 Structure HP vs EM



I sum that up to 3,333,604 Effective HP vs pure EM damage - minus the strike from the titan should leave 333,604 HP remaining.

As the carrier still went boom that leads me to believe that my math or understanding is borked somewhere.

If you are able to explain where I went wrong then please feel free to enlighten me.


there is still the issue of the fact that the chimera only has 551,344 hit points. so the kill mail will show 551,344 damage taken/damage received.


In EFT this has 3,345,369 EHP vs EM damage (slight difference is from hull upgrades 5) so yes I think it should live against 3mil EM damage from a Doomsday. In your example the DD should leave 333,604 EHP remaining, or 133,441.6 Hull Hp

[Chimera, EHP Tesst]
Damage Control II
Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System
Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System
Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System

Pith X-Type EM Ward Field
EM Ward Field II
Gistum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#9 - 2014-10-10 16:53:37 UTC

Rockstede wrote:
Aerie Evingod wrote:

You didn't seem to understand why the log only showed 550,000 damage when you had 2.6m EHP. This implying you don't understand EHP.

Link your fit or move on because it's just speculation.

Archons don't have 270,000 shields, around 109,000 with all Vs.


 

1. I've already shown I understand how EHP functions and switched my argument to a simple yes or no question with set values, based entirely in the EM resist.

 

2. I never said it was an Archon.



My apologies, I don’t know where I got Archon from.

That said, you still have not given us the fit. You are asking for help trying to understand the situation but don’t provide us with much information.

Quote:


The Fit:

The modules that affect EM resists - 1 x Pith X-type EM Hardener 1 x T2 EM hardener, 1 x Gist C-type adaptive invuln,  a DCII and 3 x Blood PDS



Rigs? Ship type? (We can deduce ship type based upon your resists/only 4 low slots, but come on. It's not that hard to just give us the information.)


Quote:


so let's boil this down to a simple list.

Shield HP: 275094
EM resist:  89.66% - 2,660626 Shield HP vs EM

Armor HP  120000
EM Resist  57,5%  - 282352 Armor HP vs EM

Structure HP 156250
EM Resist  60%     - 390625 Structure HP vs EM



Earlier you wrote your resists were 93.7%. This a problem, you are giving us piecemeal and contradictory information.
 
Quote:


I sum that up to 3,333,604 Effective HP vs pure EM damage - minus the strike from the titan should leave 333,604 HP remaining.

As the carrier still went boom that leads me to believe that my math or understanding is borked somewhere.

If you are able to explain where I went wrong then please feel free to enlighten me.



As Chainsaw Plankton pointed out, the 333,604 is EHP remaining not actual HP. It use to be that if a ship dealt an overwhelming blow to another, based on some sort of total damage dealt/remaining HP voodoo math (Though I don’t know if it ever applied to just PvE or PvP as well) that the ship would just blow up. Now they supposedly changed that mechanic so it would no longer apply, but I'm going off memory here, but I heard reports of funkyness still occurring.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2014-10-10 17:34:50 UTC
Aerie Evingod wrote:

As Chainsaw Plankton pointed out, the 333,604 is EHP remaining not actual HP. It use to be that if a ship dealt an overwhelming blow to another, based on some sort of total damage dealt/remaining HP voodoo math (Though I don’t know if it ever applied to just PvE or PvP as well) that the ship would just blow up. Now they supposedly changed that mechanic so it would no longer apply, but I'm going off memory here, but I heard reports of funkyness still occurring.


that was the other thing I was wondering about, I kinda thought that since it is "fixed" it wasn't really worth mentioning, but that said it is very possible that it still might be an issue? I thought it was something like 50% of hull in one shot, but the example was only hitting ~15% of hull.

and supposedly dreads are better about surviving a DD (think it requires a specific hardener or two) and their HP isn't that much greater.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Rockstede
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-10-10 20:33:05 UTC
I meant to add that the original resist was from the test server whereas the second listed resist was from live, as for the fit I posted all the mids and lows so I really don't know what else you want from me.

Thanks for the clarification on the math, good to know I was along the right path at least.

Jon Illat
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#12 - 2014-10-12 22:35:53 UTC
Pretty sure the DD does 3 mill damage before skills, and you get DD V on SiSi, which gives an extra 5 or 10% damage per level. Something like that, which is why your carrier went 'pop'.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-10-12 22:42:53 UTC
Jon Illat wrote:
Pretty sure the DD does 3 mill damage before skills, and you get DD V on SiSi, which gives an extra 5 or 10% damage per level. Something like that, which is why your carrier went 'pop'.


It's 2m before skills so with 10% per level thats 3m with all V.

Its really simple, you need 3m ehp to survive a 3m DD, the numbers that shows up on your screen or in the killmail are after resists.