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Golden days of WH space are long gone....
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BorderLover
LPBUY
#1 - 2014-10-12 03:57:36 UTC
The golden days of WH space have long passed.... for the time being anyhow.

The upcoming changes to k space will make k space pvp much more fun, comparable to the older days of eve where blue doughnuts did as rein as supreme overlords.


Maybe one day WH space will be like it was? Rolling into people everyday having fun brawls, now all that happens is you tend to roll into the same people over and over again, who are part of ever larger corporations/alliances of 200 plus. I remember when I could roll and I would see alot of activity, maybe it did not always result in pvp but It is has slowly gotten much more silent in wh space!

It seems the people in WH Space are gravitating towards each other and forming larger and larger entities to cope with the new dynamics, which in turn causes others to do the same because they cannot compete with such numbers without doing so.

I also know that there are many smaller content creators in wh space c5 and up who know deep down that if they were to get invaded and evicted there is no way they can compete/defend with these 80man t3/dread fleets but they stay because they would rather go down fighting and loose everything than leave for k space there and then. However not everyone can do this and many smaller entities have left and are still leaving.

It does not seem to be getting any better to me and as I said I have noticed entities getting larger with not many newcomers to high class wh's.

PS: This is not a whine thread, its just what I think and I am curious to see what some of you may think. I know not all of wh space is here to comment so I wont get a everyone opinion but all the same!

What say ye?
SoulRipper666
Blue-Fire
#2 - 2014-10-12 04:37:25 UTC
One of these threads gets started about every month and has been for the last 5 years.

Wormholes mechanics have changed, but large groups have always existed in wspace. There is a cycle....every one gravitates toward a few highly active corps who create lots of content...then those groups get too large and die or splinter due to internal conflict. New corps and alliances are formed in the fallout. Unless you have lived in wspace for more than a year you probably have not seen this cycle end-to-end.

I'm pretty sure everyone would agree they would like to see more people in wspace, but the vast majority of people do not accept the high risk high reward aspect of this space. Everyone simply wants the rewards. Sure, you risk getting evicted but where else in new eden can you make that ISK back in a matter of months or even weeks.

Everyone would love more PVP content in wspace, but I don't think the corp/alliance political structure has anything to do with it.

My corp ends up PVPing in nullsec about 80% of the time due to the lack of content in wspace, but living in wspace still provides a very unique PVP experience due to mass limits, random kspace exits, and wormhole effects. For these reasons we think wspace will always be the best space.

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Winthorp
#3 - 2014-10-12 04:43:25 UTC
IBL for ranting.
Billy Hardcore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-10-12 07:39:56 UTC
eve forums need downvote button

#BillyFleet
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#5 - 2014-10-12 09:33:34 UTC
There is nothing new under the sun. Groups come and groups go and so the wheel of Bob turns

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
TurboX3
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#6 - 2014-10-12 09:59:19 UTC
"I'll be back"
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-10-12 12:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
SoulRipper666 wrote:
Wormholes mechanics have changed, but large groups have always existed in wspace. There is a cycle....every one gravitates toward a few highly active corps who create lots of content...then those groups get too large and die or splinter due to internal conflict. New corps and alliances are formed in the fallout.

this actually isnt true.
it's certainly true now, and has been for a while, but WHs used to be more or less only single corps that were nowhere near as big as they are now.
'back in the day' there were really only CCRES and AHARM as 'large' corps and everyone else was what would now be called a small to medium corp.
note that back then, a large group meant you could throw together 20 pilots for a set op, nothing like the blob fest ops of recent times.
there were 'good' corps around but they valued skill over numbers.
the tipping point was the formation of Narwhals which lead to the alliancing up of WH space as the focus shifted to numbers over skill to keep up with the large corps and newly cropping up alliances.
now it's actually shifted slightly back to single corps but the single corps are still valuing numbers since they need to keep up with the alliance that are still around.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
AssassinationsdoneWrong
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#8 - 2014-10-12 15:52:44 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
IBL for ranting.


Officially adding IBL to eve dictionary.

The Nexus 7's

What we fall short of in numbers we more than make up for in stupidity
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-10-12 16:00:38 UTC
BorderLover wrote:
The golden days of WH space have long passed.... for the time being anyhow.

The upcoming changes to k space will make k space pvp much more fun, comparable to the older days of eve where blue doughnuts did as rein as supreme overlords.


Oh, is it time for one of these threads already? I didn't hear the alarm.

It's funny how the same changes will make one person scream "WH life revival!" and the other cry "WH space is dead" over the same patch notes.

Borderlover, if what you say is true, then we're about to see a new golden age of Eve? Really? You think that these changes will just fix the blue donut? ok, I appreciate the optimism, but please excuse me if I maintain my skepticism.

OBTW, when exactly were "The golden days of WH space"? I'd like dates.

IBL for flaming.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#10 - 2014-10-12 16:09:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
The golden age of the wild west frontier style wormhole space is long gone... that isn't to say wormhole space is dead, though indiscriminate spam of frig wormholes and mass based jump range certainly seems to be doing more negative than positive things for wormhole activity - the diehards are as active as ever but a lot of fringe players have gone and not replaced in any significant numbers.

Does anyone actually make any interesting use of frig wormholes? from my perspective they seem little more than a slightly annoying pain in the side and not seen any actual use of them so far. They seem to me to be something that would be better off developed as its own area of wormhole space with some links to k and the rest of w space.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#11 - 2014-10-12 16:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
SoulRipper666 wrote:
...the high risk high reward aspect of this space.


While wormhole space is high risk, I have found it by and large is not all that high of a reward. Yes there are a few people out there that do c5 escalations and divide the profits between only three or so people but that is not our space in general. The rest of our space either doesn't have escalations or they divide the profit between a lot more people to the point it is not all that profitable. I believe that most people are here because this is where they want to be rather than for the gold rush.
Jess Tanner
Bangworks Systems Inc.
#12 - 2014-10-12 18:12:18 UTC
SoulRipper666
Blue-Fire
#13 - 2014-10-12 22:28:43 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
SoulRipper666 wrote:
Wormholes mechanics have changed, but large groups have always existed in wspace. There is a cycle....every one gravitates toward a few highly active corps who create lots of content...then those groups get too large and die or splinter due to internal conflict. New corps and alliances are formed in the fallout.

this actually isnt true.
it's certainly true now, and has been for a while, but WHs used to be more or less only single corps that were nowhere near as big as they are now.
'back in the day' there were really only CCRES and AHARM as 'large' corps and everyone else was what would now be called a small to medium corp.
note that back then, a large group meant you could throw together 20 pilots for a set op, nothing like the blob fest ops of recent times.
there were 'good' corps around but they valued skill over numbers.
the tipping point was the formation of Narwhals which lead to the alliancing up of WH space as the focus shifted to numbers over skill to keep up with the large corps and newly cropping up alliances.
now it's actually shifted slightly back to single corps but the single corps are still valuing numbers since they need to keep up with the alliance that are still around.



Well, if you're comparing the time from the minute after wormholes were released, then yes..things have changed. In the early days wormhole space was much more difficult to live in without mapping tools and corp bookmarks. It took time for the mechanics to be understood which then opened the flood gates for just about anyone to move into wspace. Nothing will bring those times back without completely rewriting wormholes.

While it does suck running into those 40man T3 fleets, I really dont think a 200-300 man corp is unreasonable. Considering most people have 1-15 alts in their corp with them and it becomes important to have people across every timezone....you can easily see corp/alliance numbers growing to meet these requirements. The only group that I think was truly too large for wspace was HAHA when they reached nearly 1000 members, but even they recognized that they out grew wspace.

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#14 - 2014-10-13 00:00:18 UTC
Kynric wrote:
SoulRipper666 wrote:
...the high risk high reward aspect of this space.


While wormhole space is high risk, I have found it by and large is not all that high of a reward. Yes there are a few people out there that do c5 escalations and divide the profits between only three or so people but that is not our space in general. The rest of our space either doesn't have escalations or they divide the profit between a lot more people to the point it is not all that profitable. I believe that most people are here because this is where they want to be rather than for the gold rush.


I make more money from "kill a Tengu" than I do from "kill a sleeper". by that measure, 2009-2011 is the golden age, when more people lacked the immensely improved "Wormholes For Dummies" videos and the like, and people actually did sites in Drakkes, Tengus and the like. I used to make billions a month just selling other people's blue and green modules.

Nowadays, not so much. I make more money doing level 4 missions, because I can't be arsed doing incursions. When we go C4's we make poverty money. For example, a Tengu I killed a few days ago 2009 style dropped 880-1200M in loot, and took 3 hours of camping to farm. Split 4 ways, that's still better than ratting.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~