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Is the disparity between the Tengu and the Loki intended?
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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#1 - 2014-10-12 15:36:57 UTC
I present 2 typical fits used in 0.0 fleets.

720mm Art. Loki
http://i.imgur.com/FyzJ4SY.png

250mm Rail Tengu
http://i.imgur.com/8NC5KKK.png

I cant help but notice the huge disparity in tanks.

You can make a much tankier Loki, but not with fitting its intended longer range (and higher alpha) weapon system.

I know tech 3's in general need attention, but shouldnt these 2 ships more closely match up in EHP / Resists?

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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#2 - 2014-10-12 15:52:49 UTC
Should two completely different ships, with two completely different fits using two completely different tanking styles closely match up in EHP/Resists ?

No, they shouldn't.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#3 - 2014-10-12 15:56:28 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Should two completely different ships, with two completely different fits using two completely different tanking styles closely match up in EHP/Resists ?

No, they shouldn't.


im not suggesting they be exact

but within the ballpark

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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2014-10-12 16:08:19 UTC
when it comes to t3s I wonder if anything was intentional Lol

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2014-10-12 16:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
At twice the range and twice the speed, 3 times the alpha, it can be argued that the Loki doesn't need as much tank. It just needs to be flown differently.

That said.... I wish the Loki was a little better for PvE.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#6 - 2014-10-12 16:14:20 UTC
i like how the 90km optimal can lock out to 150km while the 130km optimal can only lock to 80km Roll
loki have mwd tengu have AB
maybe if you fit them the same way the results will be closer
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#7 - 2014-10-12 16:22:20 UTC
I feel an impending "Nerf the Tengu" thread here.

Perhaps even a "Rail Tengu is OP !"

Please stop now What?
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#8 - 2014-10-12 16:26:35 UTC
Fascinating! When you sh*tfit a loki it doesn't perform very well. Shocked Who knew?
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#9 - 2014-10-12 16:41:20 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Fascinating! When you sh*tfit a loki it doesn't perform very well. Shocked Who knew?


can you show a better example of a long range loki?

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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#10 - 2014-10-12 16:50:51 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
I feel an impending "Nerf the Tengu" thread here.

Perhaps even a "Rail Tengu is OP !"

Please stop now What?


I like tengus, but I think Loki's could use a buff

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Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-10-12 17:33:49 UTC
Tengu is Eagle on steroids.
How do that loki compare to a Munnin ?
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#12 - 2014-10-12 19:41:02 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
I present 2 typical fits used in 0.0 fleets.


CFC Tengu okay, but what is that Lokifit? You should seriously spank your leadership for that.

Using a rather normal arty loki with a 1600mm plate:

Quote:
[Loki, 720 fleet]

Gyrostabilizer II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II
10MN Afterburner II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


You got 105k ehp, 145k fleeted. Sigradius is 130m against a tengu's 260m, that's one difference.

That aside, Loki's lacking buffer-sub makes this happen - together with the awkward slot layout.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-10-13 10:13:32 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
I present 2 typical fits used in 0.0 fleets.

720mm Art. Loki
http://i.imgur.com/FyzJ4SY.png

250mm Rail Tengu
http://i.imgur.com/8NC5KKK.png

I cant help but notice the huge disparity in tanks.

You can make a much tankier Loki, but not with fitting its intended longer range (and higher alpha) weapon system.

I know tech 3's in general need attention, but shouldnt these 2 ships more closely match up in EHP / Resists?



The tengu and Proteus are the only real COMBAT T3. The loki is more an utility ship. Without its web bonuses no one would use them. The legion or oksih, but cannot do impressive things as the Tengu and proteus.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#14 - 2014-10-13 14:32:54 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
I feel an impending "Nerf the Tengu" thread here.

Perhaps even a "Rail Tengu is OP !"

Please stop now What?


It is OP. But every 0.0 alliance uses it so they wont scream about it since the alternatives involve Legions and Ishtars - or Battleships which are balls right now.

To Balance T3's, BS need a rework. A real rework, modules included.
Kirasten
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-10-14 03:37:36 UTC
That Loki fit is a troll, right? I have a hard time believing someone would deliberately fly that in a fleet.
Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-10-14 07:00:20 UTC
I don't wven T3 and still think it dumb to compare T3 fits.

Figure out how you like to fly.

Figure out modules and guns you like.

Choose skills for that.

Choose T3 for that.

Profit.

Period. Seriously.

Why don't you ask why a tengu beats a legion when both are equit with missile launchers.

Or why a Loki can't use lasers as well as a legion.

If my eyes could roll any faster, we could make a power source out of them to supply Eroupe.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2014-10-14 12:24:36 UTC
This just in:

If you use 7 slots for your tank instead of 4, you get a better tank!
Also: 800mm plate dont give immense amounts of buffer!

More at 11

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#18 - 2014-10-14 16:32:07 UTC
Not only are there a disproportionate amount of tanking modules, but you are trying to compare a shield tanked versus an armor tank, 3 damage mods versus 2, and no utility slots versus long range web.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2014-10-14 19:39:05 UTC
Both are going to be nerfed in the t3 rebalanceBlink
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-10-15 11:37:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Both are going to be nerfed in the t3 rebalanceBlink

Oh my.....SELL EVERYTHING NOW!!!11!1
On a serious note, this will cause butthurt.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
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