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Mass-based capacitor use of warp disruptors and stasis webifiers

Author
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#1 - 2014-10-12 10:34:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Miner Amarr
Change capacitor usage of warp disruptors and stasis webifier to be proportional to the mass of the target ship.
This would prohibit a frigate from pinning down a battleship endlessly, while allowing an interceptor to do so because it has an "80% reduction to propulsion jamming systems activation cost."

Also allow supers to be pointed. Or take away their immunity to ewar and make ewar activation cost proportional to the mass of the target ship.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2014-10-12 10:57:30 UTC
no bigger ships are meant to be vulnerable to smaller ones.


and not until they can find another use for HICs
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#3 - 2014-10-12 11:00:17 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
no bigger ships are meant to be vulnerable to smaller ones.


and not until they can find another use for HICs


Bigger ships will still be vulnerable to small ones, but not to "too small" ones.
Also HICs are still good for tackling supers because of their tanking ability. A battleship pointing a supercarrier will be shortlived.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2014-10-12 11:00:34 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:

This would prohibit a frigate from pinning down a battleship endlessly

why?
frigates are meant to be able to do thisRoll
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2014-10-12 11:04:00 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Change capacitor usage of warp disruptors and stasis webifier to be proportional to the mass of the target ship.
This would prohibit a frigate from pinning down a battleship endlessly, while allowing an interceptor to do so because it has an "80% reduction to propulsion jamming systems activation cost."

Also allow supers to be pointed. Or take away their immunity to ewar and make ewar activation cost proportional to the mass of the target ship.



So you would like supers to be able to point supers?

YES PLEASE.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#6 - 2014-10-12 11:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Miner Amarr
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:

This would prohibit a frigate from pinning down a battleship endlessly

why?
frigates are meant to be able to do thisRoll


Why aren't frigates allowed to pin down titans endlessly?

You use interdictors and heavy interdictors to pin down supercapitals. You use interceptors to pin down battleships/carriers.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-10-12 12:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
IIRC the lore.....disruptors and the like affect the navigation computer so mass not an issue.


Webs....forget their lore but fall back on the lore of this is what small ships do. fast frigate jumps on contact, slower dps mosey on in after.


Said this before in another thread but most start pvp in the tackle frigs. We had our fun in them when it was out time....now its their time. Some counters to this. I took isk/hour hits running warriors over hobs belt ratting. Or throw in some ecm drones if possible. In travel mode...well if the frigate scout is having fun clearing the camp obi the bs should not be jumping into it either.

Ttians and such...some poster had a nifty idea about redundant sensors and such and he is on the right path. Enough tackle to overload the super don't need the hics as much (for the crews who can't field suicide hics all night a reasonable idea imo).
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#8 - 2014-10-12 12:41:13 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
IIRC the lore.....disruptors and the like affect the navigation computer so mass not an issue.


Webs....forget their lore but fall back on the lore of this is what small ships do. fast frigate jumps on contact, slower dps mosey on in after.


Said this before in another thread but most start pvp in the tackle frigs. We had our fun in them when it was out time....now its their time. Some counters to this. I took isk/hour hits running warriors over hobs belt ratting. Or throw in some ecm drones if possible. In travel mode...well if the frigate scout is having fun clearing the camp obi the bs should not be jumping into it either.

Ttians and such...some poster had a nifty idea about redundant sensors and such and he is on the right path. Enough tackle to overload the super don't need the hics as much (for the crews who can't field suicide hics all night a reasonable idea imo).


Learn english before posting. Also take some lessons in Logic™ and Reading Comprehension™
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#9 - 2014-10-12 12:49:45 UTC
What a stupid idea.

Eve is centered around the mentality that bigger != better.

Deal with it or pack your stuff and move out.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

159Pinky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-10-12 12:51:18 UTC
No.
And if CCP were ever to implement this they'll add another role bonus to interceptors and their T1 version: 90% reduction of mass based capacitor usage. Why? Because tackling is an interceptors job. So a bs shouldn't escape because it's big.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-10-12 13:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Miner Amarr wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
IIRC the lore.....disruptors and the like affect the navigation computer so mass not an issue.


Webs....forget their lore but fall back on the lore of this is what small ships do. fast frigate jumps on contact, slower dps mosey on in after.


Said this before in another thread but most start pvp in the tackle frigs. We had our fun in them when it was out time....now its their time. Some counters to this. I took isk/hour hits running warriors over hobs belt ratting. Or throw in some ecm drones if possible. In travel mode...well if the frigate scout is having fun clearing the camp obi the bs should not be jumping into it either.

Ttians and such...some poster had a nifty idea about redundant sensors and such and he is on the right path. Enough tackle to overload the super don't need the hics as much (for the crews who can't field suicide hics all night a reasonable idea imo).


Learn english before posting. Also take some lessons in Logic™ and Reading Comprehension™



Its ccp's lore....perhaps you should read and comprehend it. It fits into their grand scheme of even lower sp can do something in this game as well. Kind of throws all this out when a non inty tackler is used. Some like using AF's, pirate frigates, bombers, etc as an example. Or am I missing an added idea post to make inty's able to use cyno portals so a blops gang can tackle and kill BS targets (not killing their cap in the process)? Or recons/bombers/maybe bs' getting a role bonus to reduce cap use of these mods.

And logic states bring a counter. Frigate tackles BS. BS has issues killing said frigate tackle(s). One logical solution: bring something to kill the frigate(s). Not the logic you are looking for but logical all the same. If you perchance study symbolic logic you will find more than one solution exists. Embrace this lesson as it will be reused when applied in areas like algorithm design in programming.

If frigate backup not an option and want cap hit hard, try heavy neut as a plan B. With luck frigate flies in range and gets a decent cap hit real fast. Not the method you want the cap hit to take place, but a cap hit none the less.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#12 - 2014-10-12 13:19:44 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
What a stupid idea.

Eve is centered around the mentality that bigger != better.

Deal with it or pack your stuff and move out.


How about we give frigates an AOE doomsday?
That will sure fix eve. No more will numbers matter, and no more will ship size matter.
Everyone will be equal.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#13 - 2014-10-12 13:21:41 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
IIRC the lore.....disruptors and the like affect the navigation computer so mass not an issue.


Webs....forget their lore but fall back on the lore of this is what small ships do. fast frigate jumps on contact, slower dps mosey on in after.


Said this before in another thread but most start pvp in the tackle frigs. We had our fun in them when it was out time....now its their time. Some counters to this. I took isk/hour hits running warriors over hobs belt ratting. Or throw in some ecm drones if possible. In travel mode...well if the frigate scout is having fun clearing the camp obi the bs should not be jumping into it either.

Ttians and such...some poster had a nifty idea about redundant sensors and such and he is on the right path. Enough tackle to overload the super don't need the hics as much (for the crews who can't field suicide hics all night a reasonable idea imo).


Learn english before posting. Also take some lessons in Logic™ and Reading Comprehension™



Its ccp's lore....perhaps you should read and comprehend it. It fits into their grand scheme of even lower sp can do something in this game as well. Kind of throws all this out when a non inty tackler is used. Some like using AF's, pirate frigates, bombers, etc as an example. Or am I missing an added idea post to make inty's able to use cyno portals so a blops gang can tackle and kill BS targets (not killing their cap in the process)? Or recons/bombers/maybe bs' getting a role bonus to reduce cap use of these mods.

And logic states bring a counter. Frigate tackles BS. BS has issues killing said frigate tackle(s). One logical solution: bring something to kill the frigate(s). Not the logic you are looking for but logical all the same. If you perchance study symbolic logic you will find more than one solution exists. Embrace this lesson as it will be reused when applied in areas like algorithm design in programming.

If frigate backup not an option and want cap hit hard, try heavy neut as a plan B. With luck frigate flies in range and gets a decent cap hit real fast. Not the method you want the cap hit to take place, but a cap hit none the less.


Then why isn't a frigate also capable of pointing a supercarrier or a titan?
There, your stupid post destroyed in one question.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-10-12 13:35:56 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:


Then why isn't a frigate also capable of pointing a supercarrier or a titan?
There, your stupid post destroyed in one question.



Because CCP, wrongly, gave them immunity long ago. E stalk me on this area if you want, I have always said this was a bad idea. There are exceptions to all things. In this case ccp had a brain fart imo and programmed this crap into the game.

Hictors was the answer given as a solution. However it was in the post mommy buff patching when 0.0 was dynamite fishing in low sec with mommies this solution was found lacking. As the average pirate crew and even fw doesn't have fleets of these on standby.
Mommies nerfed eventually but it did not kill off dynamite fishing entirely.

TBH....you could have kept this idea simple and say make supers and titans non e-war immune and I'd +1 it. You'd get more +1's tbh, the burn supers population is high in this game. And many hate the e-war immunity. Your issue is you are hitting BS tackling in the process to get there. That is imo too deep a cost to get this.
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-10-12 14:04:07 UTC
all this would do is make fast tackle or hero tackle pretty much impossible. It wouls also mess to much with the cap stability of a ship that is tackling, and for amarr laser boats sometimes that can be an issue already. This would give to much power to caldari/minmatar ships since they dont use cap for their weapons, and if logi is on grid they have almost nothing that uses cap say for hardeners.

The cap bonus for interceptors is so they can pin down someone more efficiently, combined with their slight range bonus for points it allows them to avoid getting pointed in the process. They still can die very quickly if they arnt flown right. And a vast majority of BS have enough bandwidth to field 5 lights to kill any fast tackle. 1v1 battleship vs frigate, if the BS knows what hes doing, the BS should win.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#16 - 2014-10-12 14:06:43 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:


Then why isn't a frigate also capable of pointing a supercarrier or a titan?
There, your stupid post destroyed in one question.



Because CCP, wrongly, gave them immunity long ago. E stalk me on this area if you want, I have always said this was a bad idea. There are exceptions to all things. In this case ccp had a brain fart imo and programmed this crap into the game.

Hictors was the answer given as a solution. However it was in the post mommy buff patching when 0.0 was dynamite fishing in low sec with mommies this solution was found lacking. As the average pirate crew and even fw doesn't have fleets of these on standby.
Mommies nerfed eventually but it did not kill off dynamite fishing entirely.

TBH....you could have kept this idea simple and say make supers and titans non e-war immune and I'd +1 it. You'd get more +1's tbh, the burn supers population is high in this game. And many hate the e-war immunity. Your issue is you are hitting BS tackling in the process to get there. That is imo too deep a cost to get this.


The idea that frigates can tackle battleships encourages blobs of battleships.
You cannot roam around solo in a battleship these days because a frigate can tackle you long enough for the blob to arrive.
If you needed a cruiser to tackle a battleship, then the battleship may have a chane to kill the cruiser and escape before the blob arrives. It does not make battleships pwn-mobiles because they take a lot of time to lock, a cruiser can thus decide wether to engage or run, but the battleship does not have that option.
Miner Amarr
No Risk No ISK
#17 - 2014-10-12 14:08:29 UTC
Daoden wrote:
all this would do is make fast tackle or hero tackle pretty much impossible. It wouls also mess to much with the cap stability of a ship that is tackling, and for amarr laser boats sometimes that can be an issue already. This would give to much power to caldari/minmatar ships since they dont use cap for their weapons, and if logi is on grid they have almost nothing that uses cap say for hardeners.

The cap bonus for interceptors is so they can pin down someone more efficiently, combined with their slight range bonus for points it allows them to avoid getting pointed in the process. They still can die very quickly if they arnt flown right. And a vast majority of BS have enough bandwidth to field 5 lights to kill any fast tackle. 1v1 battleship vs frigate, if the BS knows what hes doing, the BS should win.


The BS is never going to win because the frigate can always escape because it's faster.
The BS will probably stay there, defenseless, until a blob large enough arrives and melts it.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#18 - 2014-10-12 14:10:11 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Miner Amarr wrote:

This would prohibit a frigate from pinning down a battleship endlessly

why?
frigates are meant to be able to do thisRoll


Why aren't frigates allowed to pin down titans endlessly?

You use interdictors and heavy interdictors to pin down supercapitals. You use interceptors to pin down battleships/carriers.


As someone has probably pointed out, that's different. They're immune to ewar for various reasons, disruptors and scrams are lumped in with ewar because they are ewar.

Also, where did the Crow touch you?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#19 - 2014-10-12 14:57:28 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
Also, where did the Crow touch you?

i would guess here
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2014-10-12 15:31:37 UTC
Miner Amarr wrote:


The idea that frigates can tackle battleships encourages blobs of battleships.
You cannot roam around solo in a battleship these days because a frigate can tackle you long enough for the blob to arrive.
If you needed a cruiser to tackle a battleship, then the battleship may have a chane to kill the cruiser and escape before the blob arrives. It does not make battleships pwn-mobiles because they take a lot of time to lock, a cruiser can thus decide wether to engage or run, but the battleship does not have that option.




battleships are not supposed to fly solo they are meant to be part of a fleet
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