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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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I'm A New Player. Critique My Ship Fit?

First post
Author
Butts Alad
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-10-10 21:38:36 UTC
Butt Salad

Please keep in mind the following:
1) I'm a new player
2) I only have 3M ISK
3) I don't have 9804853455465423464 skills yet
4) I'm fighting Angel Cartel, so according to this, I should use and defend against explosive ammo
5) I have way more/higher shield skills than armor
6) Even though the ship characteristics say it's an armor ship, the HP are actually evenly split between armor and shield. It also doesn't get any bonus to armor, so that means it's just as good armor tank as shield, right?
7) Even though the link shows that there is more CPU available, on my ship with this fit I'm maxed. I think this fitting tool assumes higher skill levels than I'm actually at.

So, is this a good fit? It seems like, if I'm understanding the basics of how things work, this should be a good low-level PvE combat fitting, right?
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2014-10-10 22:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
While it looks like that site can accommodate your API being uploaded, PYFA and EFT are programs that are more commonly used and provide a greater amount of information. Although they require an install on your computer they are much more robust and both will let you upload your API so that you can see your fit with your stats.

Generally for missions you will want to use the long range version of the racial weapons as most targets will be relatively far away from you and being able to hit them from where you are as opposed to having to fly close to the enemy to hit them is preferred as it will cut down your mission times. So I would recommend Artillery, not auto cannons. Also, until you figure out what you are doing a damage control is recommended so that you will have a little bit extra tank to allow time to align and warp out if you get yourself into trouble.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#3 - 2014-10-10 22:04:01 UTC
How long can you keep the hardener and afterburner running? For cap stability you might want to switch out the hardener for a resistance amplifier. If you can run the hardener and the afterburner indefinitely, keep the hardener.

Starting from that fitting, I'd be looking at rigs to improve your capacitor amount (i.e.: small semiconductor memory cell I), add more CPU (so you can fit another gyrostabiliser), and rigs to add a bit more DPS directly (e.g.: small projectile collision accelerator). Then work on your shield skills to be able to use T2 resistance amps/hardeners and T2 small shield booster, then work on better weapons.

Increasing your tank means you can stay and shoot longer, increasing your firepower means you don't have to stay as long in the first place.

It may also be worth your time looking through discussion of PVE frigates in the Ships & Modules forum. Once you're subscribed you should be able to post there too!
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-10-10 22:07:23 UTC
1. Use EFT/Pyfa
2. For PvE is should do the work you should get some rigs. Not that long to train into.
3. You can fit the rifter however you want it to be.
4. Have you done the SoE arc for all that extra ISK?
5. http://www.aeonoftime.com/EVE_Online_Tools/EVE-NPC-Damage-Types-Cheat-Sheet/download.php
6. It should work for PvE. PvP will see it die in a fire so fast it will make the most hardened pirates cry.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#5 - 2014-10-10 22:18:59 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Generally for missions you will want to use the long range version of the racial weapons as most targets will be relatively far away from you and being able to hit them from where you are as opposed to having to fly close to the enemy to hit them is preferred as it will cut down your mission times. So I would recommend Artillery, not auto cannons. Also, until you figure out what you are doing a damage control is recommended so that you will have a little bit extra tank to allow time to align and warp out if you get yourself into trouble.


A damage control would be nice if he had the CPU to fit it. A young character with little training isn't going to be able to fit artillery which are more CPU and PG intensive than auto cannons, much less artillery and a DC.

Which reminds me: rather than constraining yourself to a frigate, Butts Alad might want to up-size to a destroyer. These ships use the same size weapons as frigates so you don't need to do much training apart from the spaceship skill for the hull itself. You immediately get more CPU and PG, much more firepower due to more slots, and more tank due to more EHP to start with along with more slots to fill. The Thrasher will make use of gunnery skills, the Talwar will allow cross-training into missiles.
Butts Alad
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-10-10 22:46:26 UTC
Thanks guys! Unfortunately, I'm at work and don't have access to the game. I tried to install EFT before, but it needs .NET4 and I don't have that and don't have rights to install it. I got PYFA installed, but it needs a game export to load my fitting. I was hoping it could use an API key, but apparently not (or I can't figure out how). As for hardener/resistance amp, I didn't realize the amp existed. What's the diff between the 2? It seems that the amp costs less CPU (25 vs 40), offers lower resistance (40% vs 50%), but seems to be passive? Doesn't seen to have a power upkeep cost, unlike the hardener which seems to cost 2GJ/s. Am I reading that right? IF so, why would anyone use a hardener? For 10% more resist you have something that costs 15 more CPU, drains the cap and have to be actively managed. Doesn't seem worth it to me.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#7 - 2014-10-10 23:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Butts Alad wrote:
Thanks guys! Unfortunately, I'm at work and don't have access to the game. I tried to install EFT before, but it needs .NET4 and I don't have that and don't have rights to install it. I got PYFA installed, but it needs a game export to load my fitting. I was hoping it could use an API key, but apparently not (or I can't figure out how). As for hardener/resistance amp, I didn't realize the amp existed. What's the diff between the 2? It seems that the amp costs less CPU (25 vs 40), offers lower resistance (40% vs 50%), but seems to be passive? Doesn't seen to have a power upkeep cost, unlike the hardener which seems to cost 2GJ/s. Am I reading that right? IF so, why would anyone use a hardener? For 10% more resist you have something that costs 15 more CPU, drains the cap and have to be actively managed. Doesn't seem worth it to me.
You're bang on with major difference between the two, hardeners are active and amplifiers are passive. Other differences are that you can overheat hardeners but not amplifiers, and as you noted there's a drop in performance, the amplifiers have 25-35% less resists than the hardeners. (37.5% as compared to 55% resists for the T2 variants, although that is compensated for to some extent by the shield compensation skills boosting the resists of amplifiers. )

Those extra resists come in handy when you're getting hammered.

Amplifiers do have their uses though, they're really handy for patching resist holes and adding to the resists of a hardener, and in PvP it means that people who suck your cap dry don't effect your tank as much.

Each has its place, try them both and see which you prefer. Look into shield extenders as well, it'll give you other options to try out, especially as you progress into destroyers and cruisers.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#8 - 2014-10-10 23:19:30 UTC
Butts Alad wrote:
… why would anyone use a hardener? For 10% more resist you have something that costs 15 more CPU, drains the cap and have to be actively managed. Doesn't seem worth it to me.


Hardeners give you more resists. It's really that simple. High resists matter a lot, especially when you consider the stacking penalty. Short version: many modules that provide a benefit will lose effectiveness when you use more than one. The first module will be 100% effective, the next about 80% effective, then about 50%, 30%, 10%, 3%.

Some ships have plenty of capacitor to squander on things like hardeners. Frigates are not one of them! In fact I'd suggest that high level frigate play is more demanding of both character and player skill than high level play of any other ship size. You have restricted fitting, restricted cap, a limited number of slots for modules, and you are in a paper thin little craft.
Valid Point
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-10-10 23:29:20 UTC
Butts Alad wrote:
Thanks guys! Unfortunately, I'm at work and don't have access to the game. I tried to install EFT before, but it needs .NET4 and I don't have that and don't have rights to install it. I got PYFA installed, but it needs a game export to load my fitting. I was hoping it could use an API key, but apparently not (or I can't figure out how). As for hardener/resistance amp, I didn't realize the amp existed. What's the diff between the 2? It seems that the amp costs less CPU (25 vs 40), offers lower resistance (40% vs 50%), but seems to be passive? Doesn't seen to have a power upkeep cost, unlike the hardener which seems to cost 2GJ/s. Am I reading that right? IF so, why would anyone use a hardener? For 10% more resist you have something that costs 15 more CPU, drains the cap and have to be actively managed. Doesn't seem worth it to me.


10% can make a BIG difference in a lot of situations. Also the active shield hardeners are able to be overheated, giving you even more damage resistance. The T2 Active hardeners are able to give you 55 % shield resistance bonuses.
Butts Alad
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-10-10 23:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Clavain Conjoined
Okay, very cool. I'm learning! I'm training destroyers now, so maybe i can get in one tonight!

As for the question of if I've done the epic line yet, I haven't. I'm doing the last of the career agents, advanced military. The funny thing is that, until last night, all NPCs were ridiculously easy. Like, they would hit for maybe 1 notch on my shield, and i never had to touch the booster. Then last night happened; podded for the first time. I was invited into a PUG (3 man total), and we went looking for combat sites. Long story short, we ended up fighting waves of Angel Cartel, and since my ship was so much faster than the others, I got to the enemy first. I know I know, I should have been orbiting my fleetmate destroyer, or at least spiraled in, but in the heat of combat there was just too much to do. So, they all fired on me at once and before I could jump out, I was dust. The weird thing was, thinking back on it, it looked like they were hitting me with lasers. Reddish beams were coming from them and hitting me. Could have have been artillery? Does artillery cannon fire leave a tracer that I might be confusing with what a laser looks like? I want to make sure I understand things correctly, b/c if they were using laser then I was not using the right resist. But they WERE called Gistal.

Another question: Does it make sense to carry artillery and autocannons? you can soften up with artillary, then switch when enemy gets closer? What about ammo? I thought the ammo seemingly designed for autocannons (ex. fusion, emp) would only work in them, but it seems you can load that into artillery and vice-versa. Does it make sense to load short range ammo into artillery and vice-versa so you get a middle-ground weapon system?

Thoughts on thrasher fittings? I like the idea of artillery for quick missions, and the ship seems fast enough for some kiting, but I'm afraid of enemies getting too close and my weapons thus missing. Is that not an issue here?
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-10-10 23:57:47 UTC
Butts Alad wrote:
Okay, very cool. I'm learning! I'm training destroyers now, so maybe i can get in one tonight!

As for the question of if I've done the epic line yet, I haven't. I'm doing the last of the career agents, advanced military. The funny thing is that, until last night, all NPCs were ridiculously easy. Like, they would hit for maybe 1 notch on my shield, and i never had to touch the booster. Then last night happened; podded for the first time. I was invited into a PUG (3 man total), and we went looking for combat sites. Long story short, we ended up fighting waves of Angel Cartel, and since my ship was so much faster than the others, I got to the enemy first. I know I know, I should have been orbiting my fleetmate destroyer, or at least spiraled in, but in the heat of combat there was just too much to do. So, they all fired on me at once and before I could jump out, I was dust. The weird thing was, thinking back on it, it looked like they were hitting me with lasers. Reddish beams were coming from them and hitting me. Could have have been artillery? Does artillery cannon fire leave a tracer that I might be confusing with what a laser looks like? I want to make sure I understand things correctly, b/c if they were using laser then I was not using the right resist. But they WERE called Gistal.

Another question: Does it make sense to carry artillery and autocannons? you can soften up with artillary, then switch when enemy gets closer? What about ammo? I thought the ammo seemingly designed for autocannons (ex. fusion, emp) would only work in them, but it seems you can load that into artillery and vice-versa. Does it make sense to load short range ammo into artillery and vice-versa so you get a middle-ground weapon system?

Thoughts on thrasher fittings? I like the idea of artillery for quick missions, and the ship seems fast enough for some kiting, but I'm afraid of enemies getting to close and my weapons thus missing. Is that not an issue here?


Don't mix guns. The saying jack of all trades master of none holds true in EVE. Nothing says useless when half your weapon systems in useless in a specific situation. Also NPC's don't pod. You prolly got podded by your fleetmate.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Butts Alad
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2014-10-11 00:50:35 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Don't mix guns. The saying jack of all trades master of none holds true in EVE. Nothing says useless when half your weapon systems in useless in a specific situation. Also NPC's don't pod. You prolly got podded by your fleetmate.


Noted, thank you. I think I misused the term (podded means killed, pod death?). I meant, my ship was destroyed and I was ejected in my pod but didn't die. What's the term to mean your ship was destroyed but you weren't killed; is there one?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2014-10-11 02:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Butts Alad wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Don't mix guns. The saying jack of all trades master of none holds true in EVE. Nothing says useless when half your weapon systems in useless in a specific situation. Also NPC's don't pod. You prolly got podded by your fleetmate.


Noted, thank you. I think I misused the term (podded means killed, pod death?). I meant, my ship was destroyed and I was ejected in my pod but didn't die. What's the term to mean your ship was destroyed but you weren't killed; is there one?

''asploded" works. Blink

Truth be told, there is no real term. You can say you were "killed" or "died" for either losing your ship or losing your capsule... but "being podded" is a term specific to losing your capsule.

Anyways... here's a fit you can use:

[Thrasher, PvE-Buzzsaw]

Damage Control I
Gyrostabilizer I

Small Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200
Small Shield Booster I
1MN Afterburner I

200mm AutoCannon I, Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon I, Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon I, Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon I, Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon I, Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon I, Fusion S
200mm AutoCannon I, Fusion S
Rocket Launcher I, Scourge Rocket

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
[empty rig slot]


Notes:
- it should fit with minimal skills. If it doesn't, train up CPU Management.
- this fit is only a template, change it as you see fit.
- upgrade to meta-grade modules when you can
- speed is part of your tank, always keep moving and kill anything that is pinning you down.
- the rigs are optional, but they will help against Angel NPCs. They are relatively cheap too (one hundred thousand ISK or so)
- with some tinkering, you can swap the guns for artillery cannons and engage from range.
Butts Alad
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-10-11 02:34:51 UTC
Thanks ShahFluffers!

Something that has been bugging me:
for autocannons there are 125, 150 and 200mm variants, each with their own named/faction/tier2 etc sub-variants. I looked at the diff sizes, and it seems the bigger you get, the more it requires and the more damage it does... makes sense. I'd think to slot the bigger ones if I can afford it, CPU/Power wise. But there there's a stat that i know is important that gets worse the bigger you go (and it makes sense logically): tracking speed. It seems like it's one of those things that you need up to a point (like, if you're overkill on tracking speed you don't get anything extra). So, how does one know, assuming you can fit them, whether to do 125mm, 150mm or 200mm? I assume there's some sort of similar dilemma with the artillery modules. Like, how muck tracking speed is enough? With damage it's probably "bigger is better" for must cases, but here I have to balance damage against tracking speed, and I don't know how to tell when enough is enough tracking speed.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2014-10-11 02:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
You are touching on a complicated concept and I am drunk... so I will let someone else explain it to you.

Generally, I do not worry about tracking when it comes to small, short range weaponry. For the most part, it is pretty accurate and any issues you may have can be easily corrected by putting some range between you and the target.

Pro-tip: all turrets have TWO ranges; optimal and falloff. Optimal range is where a hit will potentially deal full damage, falloff is where the chances and quality of a hit will decrease the further out you go. Beyond that there is no chance for hitting something.
Projectile weapons are interesting in that they have pathetic optimal range but superb falloff range. Fight in close falloff range when you can.


Long range weapons are different beasts and require that you stay out as far as possible. Because up close, they are near useless (exceptions apply).
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-10-11 04:02:05 UTC
This should help, it's very nice since it give you graphs and visuals, it covers some other concepts as well, optimal and falloff ranges, transversal velocity and blah blahblah blablablabla.

Warning, information overload is almost certain. If you feel your brain starting to sizzle, back away from the monitor, douse your head in ice water, and breathe slowly, and deeply. Go back to it when your brain stops hurting Blink.

Grrr.

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#17 - 2014-10-11 07:12:13 UTC
I'm amazed that so many people fall for the OP going "I'm new, halp" when he so obviously isn't.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-10-11 09:59:43 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
I'm amazed that so many people fall for the OP going "I'm new, halp" when he so obviously isn't.


If he posted in GD I would have trolled him. But this isn ot GD.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-10-11 10:27:49 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
I'm amazed that so many people fall for the OP going "I'm new, halp" when he so obviously isn't.


Wow.

Finally someone else but Sol and yours truely spot that this is just an not so obvious troll.

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#20 - 2014-10-11 14:36:06 UTC
https://o.smium.org/ is another site which you can do ship fits in, which you can give an api key to to grab your stats.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

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