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Incoming Stealth Bomber nerf?

First post
Author
Lady Thanatos
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-10-10 16:22:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Thanatos
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play.
By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live.


Don't think so highly of yourself. If you are complaining about ISBoxers you are not a "quality" player.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#42 - 2014-10-10 16:27:17 UTC
Don't ruin solo bombing, if you must nerf, do it to the gangs somehow. Please.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#43 - 2014-10-10 16:37:48 UTC
I've had my ass handed to me by bombers for years. With or without the new cloak rule and with or without ISBoxer.

I've witnessed the end of standard battleship doctrines because of it. There's even a very recent CFC bombingrun explaining why.

Although ISBoxer prebably makes it easier, I still think a proper bombing run takes skill. Cos I've also shot alot of bombers that didn't live up to the mark.

If the AOE becomes smaller, it should be all good in my opinion.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-10-10 16:59:02 UTC
Power projection getting nerfed, bombers getting nerfed....now if we get a POS update too, I will be seriously running out of reasons to stay away from nullsec...Ugh

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Notorious Fellon
#45 - 2014-10-10 17:42:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play.

source, if you'd be so kind?


It is not hard to find players that are unhappy with Isboxer's allowed use if you bother to read the forums, reddit or talk to people. Wether or not they are "quality players" is not for you to determine alone as it is subjective.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-10-10 17:44:16 UTC
so, the weekly-or-something-monthly-ban-isboxer thread came in cloaked up this time?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#47 - 2014-10-10 17:59:27 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play.
By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live.


At least you can't pay to win in this game...............
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#48 - 2014-10-10 18:00:48 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Power projection getting nerfed, bombers getting nerfed....now if we get a POS update too, I will be seriously running out of reasons to stay away from nullsec...Ugh


Other than most people don't want to be cubicle drones in their gaming lives too.
Brandon Shi
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-10-10 18:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Brandon Shi
Honestly bombers are fine the way they are. the only nerf I could see ccp giving them is reduce the number of bombs that can be use in the same area its currently 7 now I believe or make it so they can only carry 1 bomb and have to dock up for a reload. those are the only two ways I can see a stealth bomber getting nerfed with out killing what it is. I hope they stay the way they are tho there is no need to change the them they work as they should.


as far a ISboxxer goes thats an issue all on its own that has nothing to do with bombers you dont nerf/bance things around players that use ISboxxer thats just silly
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#50 - 2014-10-10 19:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Dave Stark wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play.

source, if you'd be so kind?

In order for his statement to be strictly true, you only need a player or two to support his assertion. So, source: me. Though I'm not sure if I qualify for the "quality" bit.

Let me explain. Time was, bombing was an activity done by groups of 8+ dudes. It took coordination to pull off, and was generally quite fun. Large and small alliances alike had bomber fc's and dedicated bomber groups. It was great.

Fast forward to today. There is little that 8 actual people playing the game can do in terms of bombing runs that won't be done with greater coordination and efficiency by a lone isboxing bomber. Moreover, in a fleet this frees up the other 7+ guys for other roles. Not using an isboxer for your bomber needs gimps your fleet in today's eve.

These days everyone from PL, the CFC, Moa, pasta, nulli, or any number of other groups use isboxed bombers for their bombing needs. That means fewer actual players launching bombs, and that makes me sad.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#51 - 2014-10-10 19:45:05 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
It's simple.... we ban the ISBoxers.


And it removes a lot of issues in EVE.

When 5 guys can symphony slaughter 200 actual players the game becomes a poopsock. It's a form of botting and everyone knows it.

ahem...

Rooks And Kings.
Black Canary Jnr
Higher Than Everest
#52 - 2014-10-10 20:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Canary Jnr
Well on SiSI cloaked ships are decloaking each other when cloaked so i suspect that they are going to be changed.

Do they deserve a nerf? Yes.

What needs to change is that you can bomb, warp off, and very quickly be setup to bomb before your timer is even finished, and each wave if you are delivering a full bomber wing is like 50K + ehp nuke spread equally over a 15km radius sphere, making bombers the highest DPS ships on the field in timer fights. Amazing damage should be challenging to apply though, as opposed to the www to me 0, www me at 0, align, decloak, bomb, warpout. That's 6 steps and the only thing that can go wrong is if someone presses that one button, and if the bomber FC cannot see a bubbler within 40 clicks. Not at all challenging at all for that 50k AOE nuke reward you get.
Hopefully CCP implements the decloak changes currently on SiSi so we can have a 0.0 where bombers have some better counter play, and can actually **** up, and there is more effort involved with setting up bombing runs to get that huge amount of damage.

ISBox needs banning from bombing and all forms of PVP, until it is it's always gonna be used with bombing. I fear that it's gonna be a fact of life in eve though, like botting and RMT.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#53 - 2014-10-10 20:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
1/ have the first bomb exploding destroy all other incoming bombs
-> IsBoxer loose their automation advantage

2/ reasonably increase single bomb damage, now that only one will go off ona given bombing run
-> bombing becomes a fun thing to do even when soloing, and wave of bombers can be thrown at stuff with some coordination from large bombers wings., I.e. sequentially

3/ when a ship explodes from a bomb damage, create a Shock wave that damages all ships close by
-> a good bombing run versus a fleet not spread out can be as effective as a wing (IsBoxed or not) of bombers is now

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Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2014-10-10 21:18:24 UTC
Posting in a stealth ban Isboxer thread.

The can of worms that opens
Dalto Bane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-10-10 23:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalto Bane
Turned in to a stealth ban ISBoxer thread, as I expected...

Sure, +1, ban away so the players with VPN's can continue to use ISBoxer and the ones who aren't can go back to 1 or 2 accounts. I don't bot, I don't use ISBoxer for bombing fleets (much), but I am multiboxer who uses ISBoxer.

My main reason for using ISBoxer is for the VideoFX (Window Input/Output for viewing multiple instances or parts of instances) but I have managed other ways of doing that and pass through input. The day ISBoxer is banned, I will shepherd the lost multiboxers out their in the ways of engineering their own clients to run efficiently without the shackles of ISBoxer...

But then, what will you try to ban, the use of computers? Maybe you will turn your attention to macro'ed keyboards and mice, huh? So yeah, ban ISBoxer so I don't have to dredge through all the impotent comments including the words, "ban, nerf, not fair, quit, dying, overpowered, etc", and get on with some threads of substance.


-As far as the original thread is concerned, this is not the change that is needed if it truly is what would be used to nerf multiboxer bombers. The change you are looking for has been mentioned before in various threads and website forums. have a random sequence of keys (2-3 keys would be sufficient) that must be pressed once activation of the bomb is initiated or a randomly positioned dialog box appears that requires an actually mouse click. There are a few other ideas out there that would fix this as well, but this is already a tl;

Drops Mic

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#56 - 2014-10-10 23:24:54 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play.

source, if you'd be so kind?

In order for his statement to be strictly true, you only need a player or two to support his assertion. So, source: me. Though I'm not sure if I qualify for the "quality" bit.

Let me explain. Time was, bombing was an activity done by groups of 8+ dudes. It took coordination to pull off, and was generally quite fun. Large and small alliances alike had bomber fc's and dedicated bomber groups. It was great.

Fast forward to today. There is little that 8 actual people playing the game can do in terms of bombing runs that won't be done with greater coordination and efficiency by a lone isboxing bomber. Moreover, in a fleet this frees up the other 7+ guys for other roles. Not using an isboxer for your bomber needs gimps your fleet in today's eve.

These days everyone from PL, the CFC, Moa, pasta, nulli, or any number of other groups use isboxed bombers for their bombing needs. That means fewer actual players launching bombs, and that makes me sad.



Which plays into my idea. One player. One character in game period. I don't know how that would be accomplished but the whole alt thing is weak sauce imho. If you want to attack me with two ships or send a scout to jump ahead of you, a real MMO should force you to find multiple humans to work with.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#57 - 2014-10-10 23:29:36 UTC
Black Canary Jnr wrote:
Well on SiSI cloaked ships are decloaking each other when cloaked so i suspect that they are going to be changed.

Do they deserve a nerf? Yes.

What needs to change is that you can bomb, warp off, and very quickly be setup to bomb before your timer is even finished, and each wave if you are delivering a full bomber wing is like 50K + ehp nuke spread equally over a 15km radius sphere, making bombers the highest DPS ships on the field in timer fights. Amazing damage should be challenging to apply though, as opposed to the www to me 0, www me at 0, align, decloak, bomb, warpout. That's 6 steps and the only thing that can go wrong is if someone presses that one button, and if the bomber FC cannot see a bubbler within 40 clicks. Not at all challenging at all for that 50k AOE nuke reward you get.
Hopefully CCP implements the decloak changes currently on SiSi so we can have a 0.0 where bombers have some better counter play, and can actually **** up, and there is more effort involved with setting up bombing runs to get that huge amount of damage.

ISBox needs banning from bombing and all forms of PVP, until it is it's always gonna be used with bombing. I fear that it's gonna be a fact of life in eve though, like botting and RMT.


The stealth bomber is a submarine. A single submarine can (and has) sink (sank) the largest aircraft carriers that nations can field. I think one stealth bomber should be able to launch a volley of bombs ( not torpedos - face it, the torpedos in game are basically a 1 pounder deck gun) and destroy a carrier. :) Much work needs to be done on stealth bombers but nerfing them is not what they need.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-10-10 23:42:13 UTC
I must have missed something, can someone help me out?

I see a lot of speculation on "upcoming stealth bomber nerfs", but in this thread I didn't see any specific way they are going to be nerfed, just speculation on how or why they could be nerfed (*except something about cloaked guys decloaking each other).

So, I went to the dev announcement on Phoebe which mentioned, in passing, "stealth bomber and heavy interdictor balance passes...". I've clicked on links in that blog and they just go to long range jumping threads. I've looked elsewhere on the forums, and haven't seen any thread specific to stealth bombers.

So where is all this chatter coming from? Is there a place where devs have laid out what changes are coming? If so, please link me. I'd like to join the discussion about stealth bombers, but I can't do that in a meaningful way without something concrete from CCP for me to start with.
Jarod Garamonde
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#59 - 2014-10-10 23:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Lady Thanatos wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Plus, ISBoxer fleets make quality players not want to play.
By continuing to allow ISBoxers to do what they do, you're risking driving loyal players away from the game, in favor of a guy with 20 accounts who's just going to end up quitting when the next hot-ticket MMO goes live.


Don't think so highly of yourself. If you are complaining about ISBoxers you are not a "quality" player.



I may not be particularly good at this game, but I fancy myself a "quality player". I care about the community, I interact with other players as they deserve to be interacted with, and I am respectful but honest with the devs.
I've been with EVE in one form or another from the beginning, and I will hopefully be there when it's time for EVE to say good-bye to us all.

I am neither doomsayer nor white knight. I am a member of this community. There are plenty of players, ISBoxer or not, that are not and have no interest with being involved in the social aspect of the game. They are just like the RMT crowd.... they don't care about the game, or any of us. ISBoxers are solely responsible for this nerf, and a playstyle that used to be fun is going to suffer because of them.

Dave Stark wrote:
source, if you'd be so kind?


Read this thread. Plenty of people are saying it, in not-so-many words.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#60 - 2014-10-11 01:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
For those of you who forgot, anything is better than the way they once were.

Couldn't fit covert ops cloaking devices, used cruise missiles, and the stealth bomber skill effected how fast you could fly when cloaked as well as a modifier to allow you to tear up small and fast ships using cruise missiles.

They actually moved faster cloaked than unclocked with stealth bomber 5. But could not warp cloaked since they couldn't fit the cov ops. :(

Regardless, when did bombers start becoming an issue? Is it primarily the decloak issue, or is it the bombs that people are complaining about?