Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Editing this for clarity - if you want the original post look in the quote 1 post down.

So recently I've been reading proposed changes to cloaking to prevent a single AFK-cloaker from shutting down PVE in an entire system at once. I have also seen complaints of carrier hotdrops apparently getting more common in lowsec, and basically everywhere really.

AFK cloaking for psych warfare purposes should be legit, but being able to bring in an entire blob with absolute impunity on some poor SOB seems kind of broken - there is no counter to the real problem - cyno's.

A cyno field gen module has very low fitting requirements, truthfully pretty low skill requirements, and effectively no downside to being fit if you have any utility high slots. This means that noob frigs to titans all effectively have the same potential firepower (249 other ships of any size, type, mixture), as long as it survives long enough to get at least one friend jumped in, and absolutely no way to stop it except by never engaging anything unless you have a large enough gang to fight the average hotdrop (several spider carriers or black ops). This seems broken to me. It encourages blobbing, and punishes small gangs - "Elite PVP" snobs, and casual roamers alike.

what I am proposing is a simple counter-cyno module - no sweeping changes, no nerfs - just a single mod with a niche use. A TARGETED (no bubbles, or anchorables) Cynosural jammer which should prevent a cyno module from activating if used before lit, AND do one of the following if activated against a ship with an active cyno

option a:) reduces cynosural precision - and results in the ship jumping into system at a random spot with a logarithmic higher probability of landing near the cyno, but almost never on grid.
option b:) prevents any ship from jumping to the cyno outright.

Two versions should exist - A long range low strength module that works on generic cynos at warp disruptor ranges, and a short range version that works at scrambler ranges and disables covert cynos I suspect that getting into this range would be difficult given the related ship is usually an arazu at long range, but hey - no reason not to cover the base. The difference between the two versions being in their disruption strength, 1 and 2 respectively. We can say that current cynosural system jammers have a strength of 100, but do not work against covert cynos, and as a fair counter-counter - might as well introduce Cyno field stabilizer modules (just like warp core stabilizers) which can increase strength in a similar fashion at the expense of increased fuel cost or locking time? Stacked regular disruptors above the cyno strength of covops cynos should probably have option A applied to them without disabling the cyno completely, while regular cynos experiencing disruption above their stability strength should have option B applied to them.

The idea here is not to change blob mechanics but provide a way for a solo ship or small gang to slightly tilt the odds towards staying a 1v1, or a small gang vs small gang fight.

I cannot decide if this should be a high, mid or low slot module? I feel like low slot ewar would be an interesting first, but feel like it should match the slot it is meant to counter, or go in the generic ewar midslot. I'll leave that one very open to discussion, along with skill and fitting requirements.

I can't believe it doesn't already exist - nothing else in the game functions with complete impunity.

ECM vs ECCM
Damps Vs Boosters
Warp disruptors/scrams vs warp core stabalizers
missiles vs defender missiles/themselves sucking
turrets vs tracking disruption
neut vs nos/cap boosters
web vs prop mods
painters vs sig tanks
etc.

Cynos are immune to everything and can be fitted to any ship (even an ibis?! - wtf?), and can bring in ANYTHING depending on what gang it is attached to. definitely the root of many problems - and a major source of blob encouragement.

I support the concept, and I can't believe this isn't already implemented.

Yes I think Cyno Jammers would be good. The key to them being balanced would be that they are short range, equal to or less than disruptor range. In fact I suggested elsewhere that the ability might be added to Scrams, Disruptors, or both.




Nothing will stop that until cloaks are either removed from the game or the ships that use them completely useless in any conceivable PvP situation. Just look at the the poster above me, there's no rationality to it all.

I feel that cynos are the real threat from cloaking interlopers. a single foe is easy enough to deal with, but when 249 of his friends are potentially on call, and there is no existing counter whatsoever - something is definitely wrong.

cloaking itself is kind of a self nerf, and deserves some more careful attention of its own before nerfing it wholesale i think. after all, they cant run any modules cloaked,and effectively are worthless alone. this is a bigger issue to be sure, but i think a cyno jamming mod is definitely a step in the right direction at the center of the real issue, and primary danger of both cloaking menaces, and basically anything from ibis to carrier. A cyno gen is truly the most OP module in the game as it allows any ship to have the power of 249 other gang members in an instant, without any real counter-module, or downside to fitting it on any ship with a utility high slot.

It is total BS, and needs to end.

Also this really wont affect large sov battles, as those are generally bridged into each other at poses or safes, or are already amongst so many other ships that jamming them all would be nearly impossible. this is almost entirely designed as a small gang pvp, and ratting buff.

A problem that occurred to me is the arazu - long range point, and a covops cloak is a dangerous combination indeed. perhaps these cyno jam mods could be affected range-wise by a low slot range mod, like a Signal distortion amplifier? just a curiosity, and i don't think too big of a problem since they can't prevent warp, and would be primarily a defensive module

i think someone is just upset we blew up his ship.

So simple and yet would be so effective. The only problem is that it would perhaps remove capitals from large blob fights since every fleet would bring cyno jammers.. But I suppose the counter to that would be to just primary the jammers (which causes a disadvantage to the attacking side). This would mix things up to say the least and is an interesting idea. +1 from me.

this isn't meant for capital blob fights.

this is meant specifically as a targeted module to provide a counter to current bait tactics, and AFK cloaker's primary threat.

this would mostly benefit small roaming pvp gangs, or solo pilots, and ratters. This should in no way affect capital blob fights except for the possibility that it could prevent one from ever escalating from a small fight.

Far from a perfect or complete solution, but it's certainly the start of one. Gets a +1 from me.

Would be interesting perhaps if you had an AoE version launched by 'dictors from the bubble launcher, this type being destroyable (it's a probe essentially, so should be possible to shoot it down/ smartbomb it). Would give 'dictors a use in low sec more in keeping with their specific bonuses. Reload time/ capacity would hopefully keep it from being to easily spammable unless you bring a ton of 'dictors.

For a target specific version, perhaps a script for the Hic warp disruptor? Again, more in keeping with the Hic's role in fleets. Could also make this AoE if the drawbacks mentioned above actually make target specific version pointless.