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Do I understand this correctly?
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Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#161 - 2011-12-13 04:54:47 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:

I prefer to use a Brutix because they are classier. What really gets me hot, though, is the new tier 3 battlecruisers...battleship level DPS for a fraction of the battleship's price! My massive thighs are literally quaking with excitement



You're telling me thats not a griefer?


"My massive thighs are literally quaking with excitement"


Yeah, he sounds like he is trying to make progress in the game.

I've known probably 100 clowns just like this guy and his buddies in other games. All they wanna do is upset the status quo no matter what they have to do to do it. They don't care what happens to anyone. They aren't concerned with the integrity of the game. They just want to cause the maximum amount of grief with the least amount of effort.

They are griefers. That is what they do.

And in this game they are suicide gankers who keep the market running (well, the mining ships and modules market at least).



Driving blue ice to almost 500k a unit is keeping the market running? I don't think so.


No, its called market manipulation. Which is a way to make profit. Happens in the real world, even with laws and such against it. In EVE, there are no market laws, its (almost) the perfect Capitalist utopia. Deal with it.
Vernn
Winnguard
#162 - 2011-12-13 04:55:05 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Ok, I've given up... the guy is either a troll (9/10 in that case) or a complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game without putting any effort into it themselves.

No point trying to correct either.


Quote:
complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game



So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game?

THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me!
First Lieutenant Dan
Doomheim
#163 - 2011-12-13 04:55:11 UTC
I promise to make it ten. I feel the need to get drunk after I randomly scrolled onto that damn dog gif so don't mind me. Sad
Vernn
Winnguard
#164 - 2011-12-13 04:55:36 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:

I prefer to use a Brutix because they are classier. What really gets me hot, though, is the new tier 3 battlecruisers...battleship level DPS for a fraction of the battleship's price! My massive thighs are literally quaking with excitement



You're telling me thats not a griefer?


"My massive thighs are literally quaking with excitement"


Yeah, he sounds like he is trying to make progress in the game.

I've known probably 100 clowns just like this guy and his buddies in other games. All they wanna do is upset the status quo no matter what they have to do to do it. They don't care what happens to anyone. They aren't concerned with the integrity of the game. They just want to cause the maximum amount of grief with the least amount of effort.

They are griefers. That is what they do.

And in this game they are suicide gankers who keep the market running (well, the mining ships and modules market at least).



Driving blue ice to almost 500k a unit is keeping the market running? I don't think so.


No, its called market manipulation. Which is a way to make profit. Happens in the real world, even with laws and such against it. In EVE, there are no market laws, its (almost) the perfect Capitalist utopia. Deal with it.



And they are doing it by risking.............................................................


kestrels
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2011-12-13 04:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Vernn wrote:
If I go into an ice belt in a barge to mine, I can get ganked repeatedly by someone with a -10 security status?

Someone who is supposed to be insta killed by concord can somehow warp to me and kill me over and over again in practically free ships?


CONCORD isn't meant to instakill people, and ships aren't "practically free" after Crucible.

Quote:
I have no problem whatsoever with being ganked, so long as they take the security hit, and after several times concord instagibs them. Keeps the game fun having to pay attention for stuff like that.


Why? You have plenty of ways to avoid being ganked, artificially stopping them from doing what they want is an easymode button. Why should you be allowed to do whatever you want while other players aren't allowed to do what they want?

Quote:
However are you seriously telling me that this game has come to the point where I can lose multimillion isk ships in high sec to someone who has -10 sec rating over and over again?


Yes. If you're not going to take measures to keep your isk, you will deservingly lose your isk.

Quote:
Really?


*stunned*


Yup.

Quote:
And they are doing it by risking.............................................................


Isk, since gankships are no longer insurable.
Time, which can be spent doing something else.
Sec status, which will eventually mean that they can no longer safely PvE in highsec, and can be engaged in losec without GCC.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#166 - 2011-12-13 04:56:45 UTC
Vernn wrote:
So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game?

THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me!
The thing is, they're not controlling how you play the game. So no, he's not agreeing with you.

Also, you can stop with the Kestrels — you're just proving yourself more wrong each time you try to use that lie.
First Lieutenant Dan
Doomheim
#167 - 2011-12-13 04:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: First Lieutenant Dan
Did you see the dog Vernn? DID YOU? You'll stop complaining about this game, I promise. Real world is ******* worse. They griefed the hamster above him =/.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#168 - 2011-12-13 04:57:15 UTC
Quote:
So in essence what you're saying is that in this game you are paying to get griefed anytime anywhere?

Well... maybe you are, I'm not, perhaps what your doing, and how you are doing it, makes you a target. It's trivially easy to avoid getting suicide ganked, but you do have to actually not be afk.

Quote:
So suicide ganking isn't griefing? Lets be honest, we are splitting hairs at this point.

It's the risk part of mining. Eve is highly centered around the risk/reward idea, that's what makes Eve special, It's not wow in space, it's srs space biznes.

Quote:
Make them legal targets to attack? Why would anyone attack them when they are flying around throw away ships? There is no motivation.

If they are red, people will shoot them if they get the chance. In fact even if they are not red, people will often shoot them if they have the chance (crazy huh? you would almost think your playing under the same rules as they are, who would have thought?).
Vernn
Winnguard
#169 - 2011-12-13 04:57:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Driving blue ice to almost 500k a unit is keeping the market running?
Yup.
Massive profits are to be made.



Using nothing more than..............................


kestrels



Not skills.
Not creativity.
Not teamwork.
Not hauling.
Not selling.
Not buying.


kestrels

just kestrels


I am losing faith in humanity that more people don't see the problem with this. Although I am beginning to suspect 9 out of 10 of the people arguing with me on this thread are in fact members of the clowns.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2011-12-13 04:58:40 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Ok, I've given up... the guy is either a troll (9/10 in that case) or a complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game without putting any effort into it themselves.

No point trying to correct either.


Quote:
complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game



So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game?

THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me!


Well there are games where other players are not entitled to have any effect on you.. However they are usually single player.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#171 - 2011-12-13 05:00:10 UTC
Hey look everybody he has a degree in Electrical Engineering

Respect his intransigence, damn you uneducated heathens
Vernn
Winnguard
#172 - 2011-12-13 05:00:11 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
Vernn wrote:



So they have complete power over me to stop me from mining blue ice in highsec and all they had to risk to do that was.....................................................................



kestrels



Yep. You know why? Because there are thousands of people like you, people who refuse to adapt. If you aren't going to adapt, then you deserve everything you get.


Also, holyshitninepages.



Adapt? I would love to adapt. Put some way into the game for me to armor and arm my mining barge. Make the skills take two months even if you want. Then I will adapt.

There is no adaptation in the game that will satisfy this situation. If I want to mine blue ice how am I to adapt exactly?
Khamelean
Bricks in the Sky
#173 - 2011-12-13 05:00:39 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Ok, I've given up... the guy is either a troll (9/10 in that case) or a complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game without putting any effort into it themselves.

No point trying to correct either.


Quote:
complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game



So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game?

THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me!


If your playing street fighter and someone stands next to you and presses punch repeatedly, do you just stand there until you loose?
First Lieutenant Dan
Doomheim
#174 - 2011-12-13 05:00:41 UTC
Not argueing. Want you to look at dog. 1/3 down page. First thing to ever offend me on page. Real world is worse than kestrels or even *shudders* falcon...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#175 - 2011-12-13 05:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vernn wrote:
Using nothing more than kestrels
Nope.
Quote:
Not skills.
Not creativity.
Not teamwork.
Not hauling.
Not selling.
Not buying.


kestrels

just kestrels
Nope. That's just you being wilfully ignorant again. They are, in fact, using all of the above, but you're drastically lowering the bar for them with your laziness. That's your choice and your problem, not a design flaw. In fact, it just shows what a good design it is: you're suffering from your own errors.
Quote:
I am losing faith in humanity that more people don't see the problem with this.
That's ok: humanity has lost its faith in you because you can't see what a non-issue it is and how you can solve it on your own in roughly zero seconds flat.
Quote:
Adapt? I would love to adapt. Put some way into the game for me to armor and arm my mining barge. Make the skills take two months even if you want. Then I will adapt.
This already exists. You have chosen not to take that route. No, you will not adapt — it quite obviously isn't in your nature to do so.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2011-12-13 05:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Quote:
Not skills.
Not creativity.
Not teamwork.
Not hauling.
Not selling.
Not buying.


Skills are needed to know where ice belt systems are, and to be able to fit up a proper ship.

Creativity is necessary to come up with new suicide ganking setups and tactics to optimize their income and kills.

Teamwork is needed, as one person often scans down a target/takes the loot while another does the gank. Alternatively, multiple gankers might work together to kill a more well-tanked target.

Hauling is needed because, if the miner drops tasty loot, they need a hauler to move it.

Selling is needed because they run a profit when people buy their ice/miner loot.

Buying is done to replace their gank ship and do it again.

How much more wrong can you be?
Vernn
Winnguard
#177 - 2011-12-13 05:02:00 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Ok, I've given up... the guy is either a troll (9/10 in that case) or a complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game without putting any effort into it themselves.

No point trying to correct either.


Quote:
complete twit who thinks they are entitled to control how others play the game



So you don't think players are entitled to control how others play the game?

THANK YOU for finally agreeing with me!


Well there are games where other players are not entitled to have any effect on you.. However they are usually single player.



They are controlling a significant activity in a large portion of highsec using.............................................


kestrels



How is the problem with that not glaringly obvious? Hell even they know what they're doing is ridiculous. Thats why the clown corp is the one doing it. If it wasn't something totally assinine they wouldn't do it.
First Lieutenant Dan
Doomheim
#178 - 2011-12-13 05:02:29 UTC
Cry
Hicksimus
Torgue
#179 - 2011-12-13 05:02:29 UTC
I think you make the same mistake that many people do with EvE. You want it to be a game that it is not. It certainly has the potential to offer an amazing, diverse and dynamic PvE, mining and exploration system but you need to remember one very important fact. It is an MMO. The people at CCP have used PvP as their carrot on a stick and made missions and mining a means to an end. It also has the trademark MMO feature of having many details to support a huge number of players but all of the details are watered down. Examples being ships or solar systems. There are many ships and many solar systems but nearly every single one of them lacks the wow factor because it would be an incredible amount of work to do otherwise.

Now I'll get you to your exact issue. The people at CCP have provided the players of EvE with1 dynamic, intense and interesting feature, it is PvP. There are no cool space things to see or do (you warp to a mission/combat site/belt/station/outpost once and you are unlikely to find anything new or entertaining the second time) and as a result of game mechanics extremely powerful combat ships can be had by almost any player. This leads right into your situation in which somebody can get 10x as much entertainment value using a 40mil combat ship to blow up your 200mil indy ship than they can by flying to a random system which reminds them of all the other systems they went through on their way there.

I'm on both sides of this issue. I certainly believe it is griefing and lame BUT I also believe it is working as intended and that if you want a more detailed space game you should play something like Nexus: The Jupiter incident or X3. Due to the trends of MMO's EvE will never provide that amazing spaceship experience that you get in single or small multi player games, but perhaps you should try the small/large gang side of EvE PvP with a side of PvE for funds. PvP is what EvE does that those single and small multi player games cannot do. PvE is a necessity for EvE funds and requires more attention than mining but at least you won't be getting ganked while competing with an army of mining bots and since you are in highsec reprocessing mission loot will get you more ore anyway!

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2011-12-13 05:03:06 UTC
Vernn wrote:
M5 Tuttle wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Andski wrote:
I guess I worded it wrong, but yeah, crying about unfairness in EVE Online, a game centered in a hyper-capitalistic dog-eat-dog universe, is silly.


No, i'm not crying about general unfairness in all of eve. I am commenting on a very specific situation that defies logic.

Follow me here.

I get the fact that eve is not a carebear game. I do. I am not crying about being blown up. It happens. I am not complaining about the fact that people can suicide gank. If someone wrongs you bad enough you should be able to suicide gank, with a real consequence.

My argument simply is that someone with a -10 rating should not be allowed to kill the same person over and over again in the same spot in high sec.

Yes, I get it. The very nature of eve dictates that you're never truly safe anywhere, and I appreciate the heart pounding moments that can bring to the game. I am not against suicide ganking.

I am against a player with a -10 security rating killing the same people in the same spot over and over again in high sec without any penalty other than losing a ship with almost no value.

I think its a pretty narrow and reasonable complaint.


you understand that the fact that they are in high sec with -10 sec status means that you and anyone else can attack them without getting concorded, right? how is that not enough for you?



1) I can't attack them when they are sitting in a station.

2) Why would I attack them if they are flying a kestrel? The bullets I would shoot could potentially be worth more than their ship. They are griefers. They will not risk anything real. Thats why they do what they do. They are taking advantage of the games mechanics to inflict harm to others. If they had to pay a real price for what they were doing, they wouldn't do it.



Didin't realize taking advantage of game mechanics was a crime. I hope you never go afk while mining then, because that's taking advantage of game mechanics as well.
Want some advice? Make some friends, get some guns, go hunting. Or do something else...
whining and bitching is just going to make you a bigger target.