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Fix nullsec Bottleneck
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#41 - 2014-09-20 16:56:43 UTC
I highly doubt that your corp/alliance has striped the entirety of Catch, Paragon Soul, Esoteria, Omist, Impass, Stain and so on of Plagio.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#42 - 2014-09-21 02:32:42 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
I actually did that yesterday and found that the other corp members have already striped the belts clean of anything with mex in it.


I guess the only thing better than high sec tears are those from a nul player.
Guess you got to get up early to beat your own corp members to the ore then.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#43 - 2014-09-21 07:36:58 UTC
In this thread I learned that it's not a real empire unless you practice economic autarky.
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-09-28 18:21:41 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Steppa Musana wrote:

Nullseccers are part of player controlled empires. They should not be depending on the (eloquently put) Chinese labor camps of high-sec. They are their own entity, self-reliance is crucial.
It defeats part of the purpose of owning space; being able to play by your control and by your rules.


No one including CCP ever said that nul was supposed to be 100% independent from the rest of the EVE universe. The simple fact that CCP increased mex in nul sec ores but only by a small amount is all the proof that you should need to realize this.

Start a high sec mining corp to fill your mex needs.
Start a trading alt and ply the space ways of high sec and buy it off the market.
Hey here is another thought, go blow the hell out of those sitting on the choices sources of mex in nul and take it over, after all that's what nul is for right, I mean controlling your own destiny, making your own rules and all the crap.

As with everything else in EVE there are balances, we cannot get the ores needed for zydrine and megacyte in high sec and it is not that common in low. The balance to that is mex, the ores it can be reprocessed from are common in all areas of high sec space. CCP's intent here is obvious to the rest of us. But what the hell this is typical of the we are nul sec we are entitled to have it all our way type of crap.


Oh, so its by design, CCP wants players to move out of nullsec and go mine in highsec? Is that what you're saying here?

With the system we have now, highsec providing the bulk of low end minerals, and null provideng the bulk of high end minerals the system needs constant monitoring and balancing.
When more and more players move from highsec to null/low (something that CCP is pushing for if you have payed any attention to the last few updates) less low ends are mined, and some adjustments are needed to keep everything in balance.
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-09-28 18:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohkewl
Sigras wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
How about you start mining the mineral that contains the most Mexallon? As far as I can see, Gneiss and Plagioclase contain tons of it.


their simply isn't enough of those roids in a system to cover the quantities.
even if you mine every roid in all the hidden belts you only get 15 to 20m mex, and to mine every one of those belts out takes 60 hulks 6 hours at perfect skills or 100 hulks 6 hours with average skills without drones

their simply isn't a high enough density of mex to supply nullsec buliders the quantities they need.

to import the quantities via compressed ore, 250m mex in compressed ore works out at
26 Billion isk of compressed Gneiss
27b compressed kernite
22b compressed plagioclase

Gosh, it's almost like they designed it to be that way... Roll

High sec manufacturers have to import megacyte and zydrine from 0.0 and 0.0 has to import mexallon from high sec. HTFU and STFU


Highsec manufacturers dont have to import anything from 0.0. Its all delivered to their doorstep, just saying.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2014-09-29 11:29:43 UTC
it clicked as to why the sudden shortage...

most of the mex used to come from people reprocessing mission loot, anomaly loot, which comprised of guns > which had a high mex content.

now that people don't reprocess them. we have the shortage we have now
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#47 - 2014-09-29 15:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Ohkewl wrote:
Highsec manufacturers dont have to import anything from 0.0. Its all delivered to their doorstep, just saying.


Well, I have to move my minerals from several regions to my production plant. I even have to collect it from up to 70 stations since I need to buy cheap to get a meaningful margin. I think I can expect null sec people to do the same with their JF and JB networks.

You probably also notice that the biggest Plagioclase belts are found in null sec, right? Henceforth, people in null sec don't need to to to high sec, they can just mine Plagioclase in null sec - or have others mine it and then collect it at mineral hub stations from which it can be further distributed into other areas.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#48 - 2014-09-29 16:30:17 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
How about you start mining the mineral that contains the most Mexallon? As far as I can see, Gneiss and Plagioclase contain tons of it.


their simply isn't enough of those roids in a system to cover the quantities.
even if you mine every roid in all the hidden belts you only get 15 to 20m mex, and to mine every one of those belts out takes 60 hulks 6 hours at perfect skills or 100 hulks 6 hours with average skills without drones

their simply isn't a high enough density of mex to supply nullsec buliders the quantities they need.

to import the quantities via compressed ore, 250m mex in compressed ore works out at
26 Billion isk of compressed Gneiss
27b compressed kernite
22b compressed plagioclase

If you've got that many damn hulks.
Where da fun is your rorqual?
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2014-09-29 17:14:30 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
it clicked as to why the sudden shortage...

most of the mex used to come from people reprocessing mission loot, anomaly loot, which comprised of guns > which had a high mex content.

now that people don't reprocess them. we have the shortage we have now

I was expecting it to hit, doesnt seem to have hit my area, but then I do t2 mostly and have a sourced distributor for t1
Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-09-29 19:08:52 UTC
An elegant solution would be a new unit for a POS: a fusion reactor. This will take into its hold any mineral or combination thereof, and process it into any other mineral, subject to a conversion ratio. This will avoid the need for CCP to rebalance mineral availability across the regions. For example: your pile of trit can be converted into a smaller pile of mex.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#51 - 2014-09-30 01:55:07 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:

Oh, so its by design, CCP wants players to move out of nullsec and go mine in highsec? Is that what you're saying here?

With the system we have now, highsec providing the bulk of low end minerals, and null provideng the bulk of high end minerals the system needs constant monitoring and balancing.
When more and more players move from highsec to null/low (something that CCP is pushing for if you have payed any attention to the last few updates) less low ends are mined, and some adjustments are needed to keep everything in balance.


The basic answer is yes. If high sec is the only source of mex available to you then start a mining alt here in high sec and get you some there is plenty here. I fail to see how doing this moves a player/character from nul to high but if that is your interpretation then so be it. Me I see it simply as a person that is faced with a challenge in this game and has figured a way to solve it instead of crying to CCP for a fix because they do not like the alternatives..

Basically I see more players leaving nul because it is all screwed up than I see high sec players moving into nul. The recent summit that focused entirely on the nul problems and how to solve them, that and the basic ability to read a few blogs and web sites is all the evidence I need to support this theory. But hey it would not be the first time in my life I was wrong about something.

I did not set up the mineral distribution is this game CCP did. If mex is in short supply in nul or in some areas of nul but it is plentiful in all regions of high sec any person with a lick of common sense can see that it was intended to be this way.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#52 - 2014-10-08 13:21:16 UTC
Take a guess where I found this.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2014-10-08 13:57:33 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Take a guess where I found this.


that's still less than 1% of my present monthly needs....
and after this patch where ccp wants null to be indepentant, it will only cover 0.1% of my monthly need.
so carry on
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#54 - 2014-10-08 14:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
I guess the 10 belts around planets in your system as well as the 18 belts in the system next to it and the system with the 31 belts 5 jumps out can help you to cover the remaining 99.9%. Blink

The fact, which I want to point out again, however, is that there are numerous ways to mine ores in 00 sec. Anoms are but 1 of them. This screenshot is, by the way, again only roughly 30% of a particular belt analog, which allows you to mine in near perfect safety.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2014-10-08 14:26:26 UTC
come visit if you like, we already have stripped out our system.

but when ccp announce the tweeks to ore, im so gonna laugh in your face
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#56 - 2014-10-08 15:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
That's 49 belts remaining in the systems I described, plus another 35 in the rest of your constellation, plus the anoms and random anoms.

They certainly will announce changes to the mineral composition of ores at some point; I would probably also give in beyond a certain level of tear flood in my house as constantly walking around in gumboots can be a bit unnerving. And lets not forget: You live in 00 sec, player run empires sprawl all over the place. Making their live harder than the lives of miners in High sec, who constantly need to carve out sub-prime belts all day and who need to listen to certain talks from certain people regularly, certainly can't be expected from the most valued, most active and most charismatic portion of all players. In fact, it can't be expected from them to travel around space to find belts and mine them, it can't be expected from them to trade with other players, it can't be expected from them to defend their mining fleets (considering your KB, you are at least on a good path there Smile) - everything needs to be readily available to 00 sec residents.

So yes, CCP will give in at some point and take away a real conflict driver and a real reason to have hauling fleets of freighters full of Mexallon and other things you can't get in CE roam around in 00 sec, protected by fleets of players, a real good reason for purposeful PVP and not just stupid roams. You can laugh at my face all you want then; I know that EVE then just lost a good content driver and chuckle. Big smile

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-10-08 15:32:57 UTC
Simple solution to this is to just increase the yield of the already existing mex producing ore.

This is all dependant on the change in movement with the upcoming patchs. So arguments that CCP meant it this way are invalid since obviously they are changing things.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-10-08 16:23:00 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Take a guess where I found this.


that's still less than 1% of my present monthly needs....
and after this patch where ccp wants null to be indepentant, it will only cover 0.1% of my monthly need.
so carry on


Where did CCP say that they wanted null to be independant? Link please so I can keep up to date.
Notorious Fellon
#59 - 2014-10-08 16:24:57 UTC
These tears taste different than my previous bucket load. Good thing their are plenty of them.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Behr Oroo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-10-08 18:05:29 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Take a guess where I found this.


that's still less than 1% of my present monthly needs....
and after this patch where ccp wants null to be indepentant, it will only cover 0.1% of my monthly need.
so carry on


Where did CCP say that they wanted null to be independant? Link please so I can keep up to date.


Just my personal view on it but I see the changes to jump drive as a way of forcing the null population to be more self suffienct. I think that's the point.

CCP has realized in the past that certain minerals were lacking. Namely the increase in trit. It's not out of the question to think the same for mex.