Player Features and Ideas Discussion

they want you to live and build in 0.0 if you need stuff from high sec use a dst and find a k-k wh.

now my question is how well that kind of fitting will hold up if it runs into a slower fleet (assuming contact became unavoidable) using a normal combat fit.

Let's go through the order of operations of a noob in a frigate in some FW plex.

IF enemycoming
THEN warpout
ELSE shipgoboom

Pretty sure our logical processes involve at least one or two different steps, or else we'd never be getting fights.

Let's just take a moment to parse the argument for these changes while we're at it: Goons are noobs in frigates doing faction warfare. All Goons do is blob the enemy in capital ships. Goons are bad, so we should nerf capital ships. Therefore, bad noobs in frigates blob the enemy in nerfed capital ships. Makes sense to me.


Playing a game is about playing a game. Got it. Rest in peace, games?

I'm not sure what you mean by php scripts and telephones, though. Your attempts at pithy one-liners do not seem to leave you with sufficient room in which to express yourself.


Great news that you've discovered the cure to cancer. I'm sure doctors and other people who actually know what they're talking about will love to hear about it. Let me see if I can guess:

Apply grr liberally to the affected area, insert head in posterior. Wait for desired results.


You might want to try rephrasing that one in English. As far as being risk averse goes, these changes completely eliminate some very important kinds of risk. I think that's actually a bad thing, but that's apparently where we disagree.

With Oceanus coalitions such as goonswarm are going to have to adapt radically. There is no bones about it.
How many defenders will you really have at your moat? Right now goons pretty much win all their stratops by dropping the meta 200+ archons wherever they want, but I'm afraid this won't be an option for you much come Oceanus.

Your 'moat' is more like a spaghetti strainer, its got lots of holes in it and its leaking lots of tears. Pasta would probably love that analogy.

BL is usually pretty satisfied getting 'gudfites' and the occasional megadunk...but soon we will actually be able to do much more. Hope all your super builds are done in the next few weeks. Good luck defending all of them after that.

Oh and one final word as well...if the big coalitions really do try to attempt to warp en masse from one end of their space to another to defend it...enjoy the tidi. You might get their in time to do some salvaging or something.

Yes,this change will make the turtles.

The turtles that leave their shells will be easily made into soup.
The others will just sit there in the road like stupid scared turtles unless maybe a truck comes along and runs them over.

Future changes will need to address opportunities on how to turn the shelled ones into soup

Indeed, it is everyone's game but it is apparent that one particular type of playstyle (big coalitions dominating so much of the potential game opportunities) has caused stagnation.

I also note that the jump range nerf is just the first of a series of changes; I suspect the changes to sov mechanics may in fact have a bigger impact on how the big coalitions behave but that is really hard to predict.



There is certainly a lot of bad feeling in game and on the forums, and it is definitely bad that is degenerates into such a mud-slinging match so often. There is nothing wrong with success...unless it creates such an imbalance that it kills the whole "ecosystem" it exists in. I guess CCP is concerned enough to act.

Perhaps the key issue here is that the current state of stagnation is not going to change unless there is an intervention that forces player behaviour to change. Such an intervention will always be controversial and, because the outcome depends on how the players adapt the results are not entirely predictable.

That doesn't mean change is not necessary for the long term health of the game.

[EDIT: Clarfication]

First things first: I support the jump drive nerf. You can‘t expect CCP to break the stagnation of the game and at the same time keep everything as it is.

Now for my questions or concerns.

Let‘s say I‘m an industrialist, and I want to start a business in deep nullsec. For a small independent group there will be limited supply at best. In my thought experiment I will be able to occassionally travel to empire by help of wormhole connections, or as a special mission with a Blockade Runner. Therefore I can‘t move large amounts of cargo. As I see it, right now it is nearly impossible to build a lot of stuff locally.

T1 production might be possible across the bank. But T2 production is a completely different story. Even if I have access to an NPC station with all science and industrial services, I still need Datacores for invention. They can only be imported from Empire, there are no sufficient nullsec-only sources. Next up is the question of moon minerals. Where do I get region-specific moon minerals? Where do I get moon minerals at all, if I am member of a small independent nullsec entity? I can‘s set up a dozen POS at different moons, because as a small independent entity it is impossible to maintain, let alone defend.

Even if my entity would limit itself on small engagements, staged from – let‘s say – an NPC station in Stain or whereever, I would need access to T2 modules at least. I‘m not even talking about T2 ships, which need a lot more moon minerals to build.

So how do I survive in nullsec without my umbilical cord connecting me to the Jita market?

You don't.

Something which many people have not pointed out, is that null sec doesn't work by granting you abilities or opportunities.
It works by the ability to deny these abilities and opportunities to others.
These abilities, to store items, buy, sell, and generally supply yourself to sustainable levels, are needed for players to interact with each other in a competitive manner.
This is why it is choking.


So long as it remains possible for one group to put significant distance between a system, and an opponents ability to interact, that group has decisive leverage against these others.

The wormholes do randomly connect systems, but not in a manner user friendly enough to sustain this interaction here.
At least not at a meaningful level to this context.

Like they say in real estate, location location location.
Make these locations local to player access, so competitive players are much less obstructed from playing with you, and a change will happen.

^ This can always be arranged.

(That being said.) I've read the entirety of this dev blog. When I see a "solution" to a problem with this magnitude of complication, I'm reminded of what Scotty said, "The more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up." Now, I'm not thinking of gaming the system or finding loopholes. It's obvious a lot of the complexity of this solution has to do with just that. I am thinking of our little friend "human behavior."

From what I gather the "problem" being solved here is stagnation in null sec. There's just no "game" in the game there. The reasons for this are many and varied, depending upon who the player is and what activities are involved in particular. To some, there's no problem at all. To others it's a fiasco.

I'm also mindful of the two "epic battles" of late, one apparently deserving of a memorial (yet not deserving of a repeat performance). The idea of only elite alliances can own capitals, and the presence of these in numbers effectively negates any new blood from safely establishing themselves in null sec. "I'd rather be a hammer than a nail..." (so to speak.)

Taking into account the rules and restrictions that were applied to capitals some time ago, which in themselves are borderline overly-wrought of necessity, and the layering on of these new conditions, it seems to me the "capital" ship itself is more and more appearing to be the problem. I mean, if you have a wasp, and you clip its wings, it kind of loses a lot of its waspyness? (Sure, that's a word!)

I'm sorry to see a better, more elegant and simple solution to this problem wasn't devised. I think CCP's historic hand-holding of certain elements in the game, and other biases have led to complicating what could have, and should have been a simple and natural outgrowth of the game. And now, this.

Management, in order for this to work, is committing itself to open-ended agreement to continually monitor and recalibrate the variables involved in this "remedy." It looks as easy to do as balancing a water balloon on the end of a ruler. I wish them a lot of luck in this endeavor. Yet, I have serious misgivings about this approach, and I predict the result will be management by crisis, rather than crisis management.

"When the solution is simple, God is answering." -Albert Einstein-

just reposting the post that (*given the announced jump drive changes) got completely ignored lol.