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Do I understand this correctly?
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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#81 - 2011-12-13 04:07:11 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it?
Did you miss that part of “campaign against ice miners”?
Have you noticed the existence of kill mails?
Have you seen the Crime & Punishment subforum?
Have you seen the ice market recently?
Have you had a look at your own fittings and drops?

There are roughly eighty bajillion reasons.

…and your choice to offer yourself as a dependable and easy target for any and all of the above doesn't help.


And how are any of those tangible benefits to them?


THEY ARE GRIEFERS!

Look me and you are just going to have to agree to disagree ok. Nuff said.

Just because those are not tangible things to you does not mean they are not tangible things to the ganker.

They aren't griefing, live with it. Or don't... you can always leave EVE, and while I don't usually support such a thing... please do.



Great... you've made me want to hug a Goon. They might have fleas...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#82 - 2011-12-13 04:07:22 UTC
Vernn wrote:
And how are any of those tangible benefits to them?
The same way the ice you mine is tangible to you.
Quote:
THEY ARE GRIEFERS!
Then report them and have them banned, because that's what happens when you grief in EVE.

…of course, you're not doing that because you know full well that they aren't griefing and that nothing will happen if you create such a petition — you're just using that word to overdramatise their doing something you don't like. So stop lying, especially to yourself.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#83 - 2011-12-13 04:07:49 UTC
Vernn wrote:
THEY ARE GRIEFERS!

"Griefing" in EVE has a very different definition.
That might be considered griefing in some other games, but not in EVE.
In EVE, they're just entertainment.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
First Lieutenant Dan
Doomheim
#84 - 2011-12-13 04:08:34 UTC
8/10
Nullbeard Rager
Doomheim
#85 - 2011-12-13 04:09:19 UTC
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
Vernn wrote:
This is a game, its supposed to be fun.


On this point you're completely wrong (and you're the 2nd person I've had to correct on this point today.) EVE is not really a game, per se, it is a virtual world. It is not 'supposed' to be exciting or boring. It is not 'supposed' to be easy or hard. It is not 'supposed' to be fun or excruciating. Any more than life is. But the mechanics need to make sense and be 'fair' or else the integrity of the virtual world and the sense of immersion are compromised.

Botting, exploits and flawed (unfair) game mechanics are poison to virtual worlds. CCP has a long track record of neglect in these areas and that is indeed the single biggest problem holding EVE back from its potential.




Er, no.

First, any sentence containing the phrases "you're completely wrong" or "you're the second person I've had to correct on this" smacks of arrogance and a desperate need for self-importance. Next time try, "I disagree." It will save you some typing and it's MUCH more polite, not to mention accurate.

Second, I think most people mean "entertaining" when they say "fun" as that is truly what time sinks like EVE are for. They aren't supposed to reflect real life perfectly. They are supposed to give us enjoyment.

Third, Being a game created by a revenue driven company EVE has to entertain if it wants to make money for CCP.

Fourth, if EVE is a sandbox, there are bullies in that sandbox and most people don't like bullies and THAT is probably the biggest thing keeping people from subscribing to this game. Immersion and a feeling of fairness is difficult in a game where a guy can walk into your house, wreck your car, steal your stuff and maybe even kill you and then all he needs to do is get a lift home with your stuff because all the police did was wreck HIS car.

"Do unto others and then run" helped build EVE but it will likely be EVE's biggest stumbling block to blowout success if it is not handled more carefully.

Field of Trolls:  "If you chum it, they will come."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#86 - 2011-12-13 04:09:31 UTC
Akita T wrote:
In EVE, they're just entertainment.
…not to mention very good and dependable repeat customers. Blink
Velicitia
XS Tech
#87 - 2011-12-13 04:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Vernn wrote:


So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it? If its not griefing then that means he has some good reason. If not then its griefing. Why can't you see that?


Assuming you're in Gallente space, the Goons have decided to launch a highly publicised incursion into Gallente space in an attempt to cripple their enemies' logistics. Gallente capships need the oxytopes to cyno around. If Oxytopes are too expensive to obtain, less cynoing of capships by the Goons' enemies.

Also, keep in mind that "he was in the damn belt" is a perfectly good reason for someone to shoot you, repeatedly. The devs do not consider this to be greifing, as the reasons could potentially be any of the following (note, completely made up by me...)

You're a damn botter
You're in "his corp's" space
You're mining "his" ice
You're a damn botter
You're supplying his enemies
You're ruining his profits
You're a damn moron for mining in Gallente space
You're a damn botter
He doesn't like your avatar's picture
Your sister (in game) rejected him
(If they ever get the multiplayer WiS working) you picked up that cute girl sitting in the corner he had his eyes on
You caught the eye of one of his exotic dancers
You're a damn botter

and there are probably loads of other reasons for you to get ganked.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Vernn
Winnguard
#88 - 2011-12-13 04:09:49 UTC
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it?
Did you miss that part of “campaign against ice miners”?
Have you noticed the existence of kill mails?
Have you seen the Crime & Punishment subforum?
Have you seen the ice market recently?
Have you had a look at your own fittings and drops?

There are roughly eighty bajillion reasons.

…and your choice to offer yourself as a dependable and easy target for any and all of the above doesn't help.


And how are any of those tangible benefits to them?


THEY ARE GRIEFERS!

Look me and you are just going to have to agree to disagree ok. Nuff said.

Fair enough, but you DO realise you're agreeing to disagree with CCP, right? Tippia is simply relaying what they have previously said, not making these rules up.

So....now what?


CCP is having financial trouble, their subscribers have been dropping, and the majority of their players hang out in high sec. Do the math. Maybe they should change some of their definitions.
Monomorium
Mnemonic Enterprises
#89 - 2011-12-13 04:11:05 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Vernn wrote:
From wikipedia....

Quote:
A griefer is a player who does things in a game to deliberately cause annoyance ("grief" in the sense of "giving someone grief") for the griefer's own enjoyment. Such a player is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.


We are talking about griefing, plain and simple. The ganker gets nothing tangible from what he does. And ironically we can see that in eve there really are no "penalties related to in-game goals" for the gankers.

That is a general (and in this case invalid) description of griefing.


In EVE (as per the devs) suiciding is not ganking. Until you take some measure to avoid it, it is perfecting legitimate.

Now, if he followed you around to many systems hunting you (and even then its grey) it could be considered griefing. But as you won't move, or take any measures to make him move, it isn't griefing. Just you being a moron.

God... you make me want to go gank miners... and I'm a pacifist.



EDIT: and there are penalties, you try it for months on end, see how much ISK you end up with.



So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it? If its not griefing then that means he has some good reason. If not then its griefing. Why can't you see that?


From Websters online


Obtuse ... " ...2 a: lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : insensitive, stupid

b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression .... "

I myself don't like some of the hisec game mechanics, but FFS, buy a vowel, geta clue...something.. Because your constant shrill whining on this subject is now grown to the point of irritating someone - myself - who would normally be right with you on this subject.

Not because people can gank in hisec, but because of the silly game mechanics that are used/ allow it.

So either just let it go and ride off into the sunset or , I dunno, LEARN FROM YOUR FRIGGIN MISTAKES !
Vernn
Winnguard
#90 - 2011-12-13 04:12:02 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Vernn wrote:


So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it? If its not griefing then that means he has some good reason. If not then its griefing. Why can't you see that?


Assuming you're in Gallente space, the Goons have decided to launch a full scale incursion into Gallente space in an attempt to cripple their enemies' logistics. Gallente capships need the oxytopes to cyno around. If Oxytopes are too expensive to obtain, less cynoing of capships by the Goons' enemies.

SO, the fact that you're sitting in an ice belt, in space that has a widely advertised attack on anyone found mining ice means that the ganker is doing it for a purpose.

Also, keep in mind that "he was in the damn belt" is a perfectly good reason for someone to shoot you, repeatedly. The devs do not consider this to be greifing, as the reasons could potentially be any of the following (note, completely made up by me...)

You're a damn botter
You're in "his corp's" space
You're mining "his" ice
You're a damn botter
You're supplying his enemies
You're ruining his profits
You're a damn moron for mining in Gallente space
You're a damn botter
He doesn't like your avatar's picture
Your sister (in game) rejected him
(If they ever get the multiplayer WiS working) you picked up that cute girl sitting in the corner he had his eyes on
You caught the eye of one of his exotic dancers
You're a damn botter

and there are probably loads of other reasons for you to get ganked.



Again with moron. Didn't your mother's give you enough hugs growing up? Some of you people are just flat out vitriolic.
Khamelean
Bricks in the Sky
#91 - 2011-12-13 04:12:56 UTC
Many years ago there was awesome 3D chat program called Quake. You could pick the colours of your avatar and enter an amazing 3D world with other plays and talk all day long.

One day I was in this really cool virtual space called DM6, just chatting away, when all of a sudden I got blown up by a rocket. I re-spawned and got shot in the face with a nail gun. I re-spawned again and I got zapped with a lightning gun.

I couldn't understand, here I was just standing around not interfering with anyone and they just wouldn't stop killing me over and over, no matter what I did.


What a fun story about and idiot who doesn't know what game he is playing.

FACT - Whenever you log in to eve online you issue a challenge to over 3 hundred thousand other people to try and kill you and take your stuff. If your don't like it, don't play Eve Online.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#92 - 2011-12-13 04:13:21 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Pesky LaRue wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it?
Did you miss that part of “campaign against ice miners”?
Have you noticed the existence of kill mails?
Have you seen the Crime & Punishment subforum?
Have you seen the ice market recently?
Have you had a look at your own fittings and drops?

There are roughly eighty bajillion reasons.

…and your choice to offer yourself as a dependable and easy target for any and all of the above doesn't help.


And how are any of those tangible benefits to them?


THEY ARE GRIEFERS!

Look me and you are just going to have to agree to disagree ok. Nuff said.

Fair enough, but you DO realise you're agreeing to disagree with CCP, right? Tippia is simply relaying what they have previously said, not making these rules up.

So....now what?


CCP is having financial trouble, their subscribers have been dropping, and the majority of their players hang out in high sec. Do the math. Maybe they should change some of their definitions.

Math says active player pop is up.

They don't publish subs any more... so no info on that afaik.

Also, while the majority of player may be in HS, the majority do not think what you think. A large number of HS players understand and live with the ganking mechanics. Some even take advantage of it by blowing up the ganker and forcing them to go somewhere else.

But that's just too hard for you, and of course, everyone should change the way they do things just for you.
Vernn
Winnguard
#93 - 2011-12-13 04:13:29 UTC
Monomorium wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Vernn wrote:
From wikipedia....

Quote:
A griefer is a player who does things in a game to deliberately cause annoyance ("grief" in the sense of "giving someone grief") for the griefer's own enjoyment. Such a player is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities, since griefers often cannot be deterred by penalties related to in-game goals.


We are talking about griefing, plain and simple. The ganker gets nothing tangible from what he does. And ironically we can see that in eve there really are no "penalties related to in-game goals" for the gankers.

That is a general (and in this case invalid) description of griefing.


In EVE (as per the devs) suiciding is not ganking. Until you take some measure to avoid it, it is perfecting legitimate.

Now, if he followed you around to many systems hunting you (and even then its grey) it could be considered griefing. But as you won't move, or take any measures to make him move, it isn't griefing. Just you being a moron.

God... you make me want to go gank miners... and I'm a pacifist.



EDIT: and there are penalties, you try it for months on end, see how much ISK you end up with.



So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it? If its not griefing then that means he has some good reason. If not then its griefing. Why can't you see that?


From Websters online


Obtuse ... " ...2 a: lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : insensitive, stupid

b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression .... "

I myself don't like some of the hisec game mechanics, but FFS, buy a vowel, geta clue...something.. Because your constant shrill whining on this subject is now grown to the point of irritating someone - myself - who would normally be right with you on this subject.

Not because people can gank in hisec, but because of the silly game mechanics that are used/ allow it.

So either just let it go and ride off into the sunset or , I dunno, LEARN FROM YOUR FRIGGIN MISTAKES !


More insults. Nice. Excellent way to make a counter argument.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#94 - 2011-12-13 04:15:13 UTC
Vernn wrote:
CCP is having financial trouble, their subscribers have been dropping, and the majority of their players hang out in high sec. Do the math. Maybe they should change some of their definitions.
Ok.

They just released a patch which made the numbers shoot up again and which, among other things, contained a number of buffs and new ships that simplify matters for gankers. How's that for correlation/causation? Twisted
Quote:
More insults.
Maybe if you weren't so adept at providing illustration for the various words used…
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#95 - 2011-12-13 04:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Vernn wrote:


More insults. Nice. Excellent way to make a counter argument.

If you find that an insult, you have bigger problems than we all assumed...


Edit: said problems being you are a Please keep it civil. Spitfire who thinks things should benefit them and only them
Velicitia
XS Tech
#96 - 2011-12-13 04:18:16 UTC
Vernn wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Vernn wrote:


So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it? If its not griefing then that means he has some good reason. If not then its griefing. Why can't you see that?


Assuming you're in Gallente space, the Goons have decided to launch a full scale incursion into Gallente space in an attempt to cripple their enemies' logistics. Gallente capships need the oxytopes to cyno around. If Oxytopes are too expensive to obtain, less cynoing of capships by the Goons' enemies.

SO, the fact that you're sitting in an ice belt, in space that has a widely advertised attack on anyone found mining ice means that the ganker is doing it for a purpose.

Also, keep in mind that "he was in the damn belt" is a perfectly good reason for someone to shoot you, repeatedly. The devs do not consider this to be greifing, as the reasons could potentially be any of the following (note, completely made up by me...)

You're a damn botter
You're in "his corp's" space
You're mining "his" ice
You're a damn botter
You're supplying his enemies
You're ruining his profits
You're a damn moron for mining in Gallente space
You're a damn botter
He doesn't like your avatar's picture
Your sister (in game) rejected him
(If they ever get the multiplayer WiS working) you picked up that cute girl sitting in the corner he had his eyes on
You caught the eye of one of his exotic dancers
You're a damn botter

and there are probably loads of other reasons for you to get ganked.



Again with moron. Didn't your mother's give you enough hugs growing up? Some of you people are just flat out vitriolic.


called you a damn botter FOUR times, and you pick up on "you're a moron for ignoring the highly publicised gallente ice interdiction"...

Shocked

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Vernn
Winnguard
#97 - 2011-12-13 04:18:19 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Vernn wrote:


More insults. Nice. Excellent way to make a counter argument.

If you find that an insult, you have bigger problems than we all assumed...


And the hits just keep on coming. Please refrain from the insults. They accomplish nothing.

I don't see how the mechanics of ganking are beneficial in the whole to this game. They are a bad idea, they give way too much power to way too small of a segment of the population, and there are no real benefits for doing what the gankers do.

Those are my arguments and I'm sticking to them.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#98 - 2011-12-13 04:19:39 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Vernn wrote:


So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it? If its not griefing then that means he has some good reason. If not then its griefing. Why can't you see that?


Assuming you're in Gallente space, the Goons have decided to launch a full scale incursion into Gallente space in an attempt to cripple their enemies' logistics. Gallente capships need the oxytopes to cyno around. If Oxytopes are too expensive to obtain, less cynoing of capships by the Goons' enemies.

SO, the fact that you're sitting in an ice belt, in space that has a widely advertised attack on anyone found mining ice means that the ganker is doing it for a purpose.

Also, keep in mind that "he was in the damn belt" is a perfectly good reason for someone to shoot you, repeatedly. The devs do not consider this to be greifing, as the reasons could potentially be any of the following (note, completely made up by me...)

You're a damn botter
You're in "his corp's" space
You're mining "his" ice
You're a damn botter
You're supplying his enemies
You're ruining his profits
You're a damn moron for mining in Gallente space
You're a damn botter
He doesn't like your avatar's picture
Your sister (in game) rejected him
(If they ever get the multiplayer WiS working) you picked up that cute girl sitting in the corner he had his eyes on
You caught the eye of one of his exotic dancers
You're a damn botter

and there are probably loads of other reasons for you to get ganked.



Again with moron. Didn't your mother's give you enough hugs growing up? Some of you people are just flat out vitriolic.


called you a damn botter FOUR times, and you pick up on "you're a moron for ignoring the highly publicised gallente ice interdiction"...

Shocked

Lol

I personally liked the "Your sister rejected him" one.
Vernn
Winnguard
#99 - 2011-12-13 04:20:30 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Vernn wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Vernn wrote:


So why is the ganker ganking then? Why does he do it? If its not griefing then that means he has some good reason. If not then its griefing. Why can't you see that?


Assuming you're in Gallente space, the Goons have decided to launch a full scale incursion into Gallente space in an attempt to cripple their enemies' logistics. Gallente capships need the oxytopes to cyno around. If Oxytopes are too expensive to obtain, less cynoing of capships by the Goons' enemies.

SO, the fact that you're sitting in an ice belt, in space that has a widely advertised attack on anyone found mining ice means that the ganker is doing it for a purpose.

Also, keep in mind that "he was in the damn belt" is a perfectly good reason for someone to shoot you, repeatedly. The devs do not consider this to be greifing, as the reasons could potentially be any of the following (note, completely made up by me...)

You're a damn botter
You're in "his corp's" space
You're mining "his" ice
You're a damn botter
You're supplying his enemies
You're ruining his profits
You're a damn moron for mining in Gallente space
You're a damn botter
He doesn't like your avatar's picture
Your sister (in game) rejected him
(If they ever get the multiplayer WiS working) you picked up that cute girl sitting in the corner he had his eyes on
You caught the eye of one of his exotic dancers
You're a damn botter

and there are probably loads of other reasons for you to get ganked.



Again with moron. Didn't your mother's give you enough hugs growing up? Some of you people are just flat out vitriolic.


called you a damn botter FOUR times, and you pick up on "you're a moron for ignoring the highly publicised gallente ice interdiction"...

Shocked



I was going to assure you that I'm not a botter, but there is no way to prove anything, so why say anything?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#100 - 2011-12-13 04:22:06 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Lol

I personally liked the "Your sister rejected him" one.


ooh!

OP picked up the ganker's sister in a bar and broke her heart!

/thread

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia