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Solo LVL 4 problems.

Author
Gav328t
Overwhelming Synergy
#1 - 2014-10-07 23:51:22 UTC
I can run lvl 4's without a problem, I use a raven with a good omni-tank, and cruise missiles to get the job done. My locking range is plenty (87km), and my missiles can travel up to 155km, so getting them to the target isn't a drama either, but...

Frigates.

The elite type frigates. I can sit in the lvl 4 all day with the frigates buzzing around me, they don't even scratch the surface of my tank, but when the little buggers scram me, I'm stuck there.

I carry two sets of drones in my raven, 5 Light combats and 5 medium combats, but these lovely little Elite frigate types switch almost immediately to the drones and take them out, leaving me with no way of killing them. It's always the Elite ones, all the others die very quickly when my drones are set on them, but as soon as there's more than one elite type frigate, that's it, my drones are done for, and I have to call in corp help, just to take out a few frigates.

Here's my Character's 'Eveboard' sheet...


http://eveboard.com/pilot/Gav328t

Now, he has a lot of skills, for no real reason. When I first started playing, I had no idea what I was doing, and just bought skills here there and everywhere, and trained stuff people told me was a good idea, which is why they're kind of all over the place. I then left the game for around 3-4 years, and have only really been playing it again for about 2 months. I've made a plan to not buy any more skills unless they're required, and to try to make some sense out of what he has already got.

I also have a Maelstrom, Artillery fit, with a locking range of something like 107km, but he really struggles to hit anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Even within the 64km optimal, it's still hit, miss, miss, miss, hit, hit, miss, miss etc etc. That's one of the reasons why I've moved to the raven instead. I can do similar DPS, though the alpha of projectiles is obviously much nicer, and I do love that resounding boom every time the BFG's fire off another salvo..

So, my question is really, where should I be focusing my current training for the raven to be able to solo the lvl 4's without having to call in help, and what do I need to follow up with, to improve the maelstrom's violent tendencies?

Any help, comments and advice are appreciated :)
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#2 - 2014-10-08 01:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Level IV missions are basically the top tier mission sites for hi-sec PvE.
You can kind of expect that you need fairly top tier skills in order to own them.

So what I see is:
You 'have drone skills' but they are not really topped off. Get the easy skills to V and the specialty skill to IV.
Get drone interfacing to V as well. Without going back to eveboard, my guess is that you need another 1.5 million SP (or so) in drones.

Missiles basically need the same treatment.
Cruise Missile spec IV is a huge improvement over what you have now.
That said, I'd train the support skills a little better first.
Again, get the fast ones trained up and alternate a long skill in here and there.

I didn't look to see how far you have Caldari BS trained. V is the goal, IV will work decent. The BS skill adds DPS as well .

Target painters help a lot. Find a fit that uses one.

Maybe post your fit and see if someone can improve it, but honestly, whatever the fit, some of your problems are clearly skill related.
All in all, you have the skills, you just need to commit to some V's.


edit: I'd recommend you pick one or the other ship to focus on at first.
Guns or Missiles are 2 different skill paths, BS V takes a month or more, and what you don't want, is 2 half assed ships.
Gav328t
Overwhelming Synergy
#3 - 2014-10-08 12:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gav328t
Thanks for the reply. My drone skills aren't great it's true, but I've been trying to get as many skills up to a decent level (3 or 4), rather than focusing in one area.

As far as picking a ship, it'd have to be the Raven as primary, because at the moment I can't complete a lvl 4 in the mael, because of the fact that it misses even the bigger ships far too often.

That said, should I focus on drone skills, or the cruise missile skills? I'm going to assume drones first, because although I can take care of the bigger ships in the raven at the moment, it's the frigates that are causing me to call in help, and drones should solve that issue.

I have been doing shield skills for the last couple of weeks, and with shield management 5 about 50% done, my tank should be more than capable, so i'll switch to the drone skills as my next focus.

My current fit on the raven is...

[Raven - LVL 4]

Large Capacitor control circuit 1
Large Capacitor control circuit 2
Large Capacitor control circuit 2

Drone link augmentor 1 (gives me a drone range of 77km instead of 57km)
'Arbalest' Crusie launcher 1
'Arbalest' Crusie launcher 1
'Arbalest' Crusie launcher 1
'Arbalest' Crusie launcher 1
'Arbalest' Crusie launcher 1
'Arbalest' Crusie launcher 1

mission depending Cruise missiles (sometimes CN)

'Copasetic' Particle field acceleration (will change to shield boost amplifier 2's as soon as shield management 5 is done)
'Copasetic' Particle field acceleration
X-Large shield booster 2
EM ward field 2
Thermic dissipation field 2
Adaptive invulnerability field 2
Adaptive invulnerability field 2

Ballisitic control system 2
Capacitor flux coil 2
Capacitor flux coil 2
Capacitor flux coil 2
Capacitor flux coil 2

Drones are -

hobgoblin 2 x5
Hammerhead 2 x5

With my skills-

resistances on 72.4/77.9/69/74.1
Defence is 891dps
EHP is 50,274
Cap stable at 49%
DPS 384 - volley is 3017

Targeting range is 86.25km
speed is 141m/s
Sig rad of 410m


All V's are -

72.4/77.9/69/74.1
Defence is 969dps (with shield boost amplifier 2's, 893 without)
EHP is 51588
Cap stable at 58%
DPS 500 - volley is 3403

Targeting range is 93.75km
Speed is 141m/.s
sig rad is 410m



I should imagine the tank is massive overkill too, so any advice on that would be appreciated too :)
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2014-10-08 15:52:45 UTC
I've seen flux coil fits before, and I heard they work well. I never fitted one myself, so I can't comment really.
My fit uses power diagnostics with 3 Ballistics.
Neither is what would be considered the "best" way to fit a Raven

If you feel tank is super overkill, start removing/replacing bits of it.
Drop 1 hardener for a target painter (the EM, unless it's rat specific)
Drop a flux coil for another Ballistic Control
Drop the T1 rig for a Rigor rig if you still feel tank is overkill

I'd drop the drone link. You really don't want your drones 'way over there'. You want them close for frigates.
I've fitted NOS there, remote armor reps (for drone damage), tractor beams, etc.

level IV's can kill your ship, because of warp scramble frigates. So yeah, I'd get your drones up to snuff so they can bail you out, asap.

Insure that ship!
Gav328t
Overwhelming Synergy
#5 - 2014-10-08 16:25:47 UTC
To be honest, the only challenge I've seen for my current tank is the lvl 4 with the bonus room, is it enemies abound? can't remember. I usually warp in and start orbiting the beacon or something else close by at about 5k, just so I'm moving. I can quite literally sit there all day, or even walk away and they can't break the tank. The problem I'm having is that I can't deal with the frigates, lol.

The target painter I've seen on a few fits, what difference does it actually make? EFT doesn't show any obvious difference, but I'm guessing it makes them easier to hit? Would that work on the frigates?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#6 - 2014-10-08 16:39:59 UTC
Target painter (meta 4) at base benefit gives a 30% bloom to the ship size. There is a second skill that goes with target painters to add % as well. Faction Target Painters do even more.

Target Painted ships are bigger for everyone that shoots them, not just you. It helps your drones and your fleet mates as well.

I wanted to add, instead of medium drones, you might consider keeping 15 lights in your drone bay. Lights work best on frigate rats, and you would then have 2 flights of extras. Use Hobgoblins btw. They are the best 'all around' drone in lights.
Saberlily Whyteshadow
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-10-08 16:57:44 UTC
If you're using the regular raven, look into getting a navy raven. The ship bonus for missile explosion radius helps out when hitting smaller stuff.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2014-10-08 17:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
There are 3 kinds of "frigates" (small hulls):
* Destroyers - these can be popped with a single volley.
* Frigates - these can be popped with 1-2 volleys.
* Elite Frigates - you'll want to use light drones on these.
All of the above should fall quickly to 5 light T2 drones of the proper damage type.

I carry 5x Hobgoblin II and 5x Warrior II. I don't bother with medium drones [lazy].
Nitrah
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#9 - 2014-10-08 19:43:37 UTC
Bring a depot with a web and a painter in the hold. Slower target + bigger target = dead target.
Gav328t
Overwhelming Synergy
#10 - 2014-10-08 19:56:52 UTC
I've just swapped out to a navy raven (as in, I'm literally still flying back from jita, lol), and i'll drop the medium drones in favour for 10 more lights.

Tau, my hobgoblin 2's normally take out frigates very quickly, but these elite/dire/loyal etc etc frigates immediately switch to the drones and destroy them, quicker than the drones can kill the frigates.


Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2014-10-08 20:59:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Gav328t wrote:
I've just swapped out to a navy raven (as in, I'm literally still flying back from jita, lol), and i'll drop the medium drones in favour for 10 more lights.

Tau, my hobgoblin 2's normally take out frigates very quickly, but these elite/dire/loyal etc etc frigates immediately switch to the drones and destroy them, quicker than the drones can kill the frigates.

I never have that problem.

I use a kill order of: destroyer (1 volley) > battlecruiser (2 volleys) > battleship > cruiser > frigate. By the time I reach frigates, they are more interested in me than my drones.

I don't deploy my drones until after getting agro from everything.

If you are really far from frigates, they will MWD to you, and will be a lot easier to volley until they reach orbit around you.
Gav328t
Overwhelming Synergy
#12 - 2014-10-08 23:16:24 UTC
I can safely say I've already noticed a difference in killing the elite frigates, just by switching to the CNR. The elite frigates are still causing me issues, but my cruise missiles are doing a fair chunk more damage to them now, so if I can't kill them by the time they're close enough, the drones are just about taking them out. They're still taking a pasting from the elites, but they're surviving for now.

I'd normally wait until the room is aggro'd too, but even letting them attack me until the rest of the room is cleared and then launching drones to deal with them doesn't help, they still immediately switch and take out the drones. I'm now attacking them first with cruise missiles at a maximum range so as I do as much damage to them as possible before they get close, then the drones can finish them off. It's worked for the last couple of missions, but I expect the story will be different if I come across a mission where I land right next to them.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2014-10-08 23:35:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
For what it is worth, some old posts of mine:

Raven (and strategy): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=394780#post394780
RNI: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3694981#post3694981

Key points:
* Rigs: 2x Rigor + 1x flare
* Signal Amp - use that range advantage!
* AB - keep moving!
* Only 1x slot for capacitor
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#14 - 2014-10-09 13:17:25 UTC
Some more FWIW; If you use EW on the NPC rats they are supposed to hate you more than the drones and switch aggro to you. Don't send your drones far out, you need to micro manage them a little. Recall them when they get the aggro and redeploy when the aggro is back on you. Maybe fit a repper on the 8th hi slot of the Raven.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Gav328t
Overwhelming Synergy
#15 - 2014-10-09 22:18:05 UTC
Thanks all for the replies, I'm already seeing a difference in the lvl 4's, and I'm now focusing my training on drones and missile skills (in that order).

I appreciate all the help and advice, it makes a nice change to be able to ask for help and actually get it without having loads of people telling me how stupid my fit is, or how pathetic my skills are :)
Kal Garande
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-10-10 02:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal Garande
Good evening,

I felt the need to help you in this post because years ago I was in the same boat you currently find yourself in... lv4 missions, transiting to a RNI from a Raven, and using cruise missiles. While I can't remember my specific fit, I did have tech2 cruise missiles launchers, an omni active tank... and I remember it being extremely boring. In fact, while I find myself considering going back to IV's for rep, I can't say I would consider a cruise missile RNI again. Missions just took too long to complete.

Firstly, while there is nothing wrong with the Raven, or RNI for that matter, I would recommend a drone based boat for damage application in IVs... so long as you don't lose any drones, you won't have to front a bill for ammo which is a positive in my eyes. Also, I remember that with missiles, the rats in the mission plexes would often shoot down some of my missiles which inhibited my damage and further delayed mission completion... the battleships are also extremely slow, and fitting a AB/MWD can eat up a lot of CPU/PG/cap.

Looking at your skill sheet, some skills I would highly recommend obtaining:
Drone Durability IV (or, preferably, V if you plan to use drones over other weapon systems in the future)
Drone Interfacing V (a necessity)
Racial Drone Specialization IV (your drones depends on what you will be fighting)
Heavy Drones V (Ogre IIs are beastly... albeit slow)
Sentry Drones IV (V is preferred, but it is a long train... however, sentry drones can output some massive damage. However, if frigs get in close, then you'll have to pull in the sentries and deploy something smaller)

Advanced Weapon Upgrades V
Capacitor Management V
Capacitor Systems Operation V

I won't really hit on guns because it sounds like you are only considering drones/missiles.

Auto-Targeting Missiles V
Cruise Missiles V (again, only if you are going to stick with cruise)
Cruise Missile Specialization IV
Guided Missile Projection V
Missile Bombardment V
Missile Projection V
Rapid Launch V
Target Navigation Prediction V
Warhead Upgrades V

You have really good shield skills... I'd recommend bringing the resists up to V, but I'd do that later. You should focus on other skill areas first.

If you are going to stick with RNI, get Caldari BS V - its a long train, but well worth it.

Advanced Target Management at least IV
Signature Analysis V

If you plan on sticking with level IVs, I'd recommend a ship like the Ishtar... smaller sig radius and more capable of fitting a MWD which make it harder to hit. The Ishtar can also hold a full flight of light, medium, heavy, and sentry drones, and the ship has really good damage projection. Tech III cruisers are also really nice mission runners, but require a ton of training in order to fly them proficiently.

If that doesn't suit your needs, the Dominix is also a really good drone ship that can fit a massive tank. Granted, it is a battleship so it will be really slow, but I've taken the Domi out to rat plexes in null in a fully passive tank and so long as I kept an eye on local, it was deploy drones and forget.
voetius
Grundrisse
#17 - 2014-10-10 21:43:13 UTC

I would change all your drones for T2 Hobs, mediums don't really have much use in missions, either go T2 Sentries and T2 lights or just T2 lights.

I prefer the Typhoon as I can use 4 x T2 Sentries and have 5 x T2 hobs for the Elite frigs. So I can blap elite frigs that are burning towards me and use the lights for when they get close in.

As Tau said above, just keep your drones in and let the frigates get right on top of you before deploying them so you don't lose so many. That way as soon as you see a drone taking damage you can pull it in immediately and wait a little while then pop it out again. You don't lose so many then.

There are a few missions, mostly serps IIRC where the eilte frigs orbit you at 6 - 8 km and they can be a pain as they aggro and web your drones so making it harder for you to pull them back in before they die.