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Crow: The current state
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LostandConfused
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-10-07 21:36:21 UTC
sorry for asking this if you consider it obvious, but I do not Shocked

I thought missiles with a bigger explosion radius hit frigates for less damage (this is why rockets have the smallest explosive radius and hit frigs the best)

Isn't the new bonus to the crow, increasing missile explosion radius make it worse for killing frigs?

Does the changes to this ship in the recent patch make it better or worse for killing frigs?

thankyou
Ginger Lunacy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-10-07 22:50:23 UTC
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..
LostandConfused
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-10-07 22:57:40 UTC
I get it lost a damage bonus and instead gained a bonus which I dont think helps (if anything makes it worse at applying damage to frigs)... and they tried to make up for it a little by giving it an extra launcher point

can anyone explain how this increase in missile explosion radius bonus it now has it beneficial?
Cartheron Crust
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#4 - 2014-10-08 00:36:23 UTC
LostandConfused wrote:
I get it lost a damage bonus and instead gained a bonus which I dont think helps (if anything makes it worse at applying damage to frigs)... and they tried to make up for it a little by giving it an extra launcher point

can anyone explain how this increase in missile explosion radius bonus it now has it beneficial?


It's just badly worded. It means the explosion radius of the missile is decreased by 5% per level. ie at all V a Caldari Navy Mjolnir Missile fired from a Crow will have an explosion radius of 22.5m instead of the regular 30m on another ship without the bonus.
Paranoid Loyd
#5 - 2014-10-08 00:57:50 UTC
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..


Interceptors were never supposed to be able to kill things efficiently, crow was OP, anyone denying that is being deliberately obtuse.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Aerie Evingod
Midwest Miners LLC
#6 - 2014-10-08 04:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerie Evingod
Because bonus does not mean increase. A bonus enhances somethings, it is something good, a 5% BONUS per level means it affects it in a GOOD way, in this case the BONUS reduces the missiles explosion radius.

The crow now has a; "5% bonus to light missile and rocket explosion radius". No increases present.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7 - 2014-10-08 06:34:44 UTC
Yeah the crow got out of hand after the ceptor rebalance
The game literally became ishtars and crows online

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Artuard Envien
Space-Brewery-Association
#8 - 2014-10-08 07:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Artuard Envien
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..


Interceptors were never supposed to be able to kill things efficiently, crow was OP, anyone denying that is being deliberately obtuse.



That makes sense but ...Taranis.

I hope they don't nerf my precious Taranis because of this theory.

However if one brings Zkillboard stats it's very obvious that crow indeed had an issue - It's still the second TOP SHIP in this game.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#9 - 2014-10-08 09:24:47 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..


Interceptors were never supposed to be able to kill things efficiently, crow was OP, anyone denying that is being deliberately obtuse.


Well thats a lie.

[Crow, rocking]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator II

Dual prop rocket crow is now even better.

Just because it can't fit LMLs doesn't make it ****.
Artuard Envien
Space-Brewery-Association
#10 - 2014-10-08 12:09:09 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..


Interceptors were never supposed to be able to kill things efficiently, crow was OP, anyone denying that is being deliberately obtuse.


Well thats a lie.

[Crow, rocking]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator II

Dual prop rocket crow is now even better.

Just because it can't fit LMLs doesn't make it ****.



Why would I use this instead of a Taranis?
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#11 - 2014-10-08 12:48:51 UTC
Absolute range dictation.

You can literally sit at 11-12k with a heated web and eat almost all close range brawlers.
Artuard Envien
Space-Brewery-Association
#12 - 2014-10-08 13:39:37 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Absolute range dictation.

You can literally sit at 11-12k with a heated web and eat almost all close range brawlers.


Good point - I stand corrected.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#13 - 2014-10-08 15:12:01 UTC
I was surprised to find that the Crow can, in fact, still fit 4x LML, MWD, point, defensive scram, sebo, and speed mods. It can't orbit at 28k with a nice buffer doing good damage at high speeds anymore, but it can still (generally) do any two of those things. Plus, it is a highly effective drone killer now too and the new Rocket crow is kinda sexy too.

Overall, not quite as bad as I had feared. I still prefer the Malediction for long-point work though.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2014-10-09 10:13:45 UTC
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..

can I have your stuff?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#15 - 2014-10-09 13:34:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bronson Hughes
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..

The Crow didn't lose much of it's damage potential. What it lost was it's ability to apply good damage at long-point range while orbiting at over 4km/s with a decent tank. Honestly, this was too much and this mix of simultaneous abilities, along with the Malediction, needed to be toned down. If anything, it's new application bonus, coupled with it's existing range bonus, make it a supurb long-range drone/'ceptor killer, not to mention still being a great rocket scram-kiter.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#16 - 2014-10-10 01:00:09 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..

The Crow didn't lose much of it's damage potential. What it lost was it's ability to apply good damage at long-point range while orbiting at over 4km/s with a decent tank. Honestly, this was too much and this mix of simultaneous abilities, along with the Malediction, needed to be toned down. If anything, it's new application bonus, coupled with it's existing range bonus, make it a supurb long-range drone/'ceptor killer, not to mention still being a great rocket scram-kiter.


That really depends upon your definition of good damage and decent tank, because the Crow can still do all of those things at once. Just not quite as well.

I'll get over the changes, just like I got over Rubicon 1.1. Doesn't mean they were smart moves on CCP's behalf though. Time will tell.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#17 - 2014-10-10 10:27:31 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
That really depends upon your definition of good damage and decent tank, because the Crow can still do all of those things at once. Just not quite as well.

I'll get over the changes, just like I got over Rubicon 1.1. Doesn't mean they were smart moves on CCP's behalf though. Time will tell.

It can no longer fit an MSE, go 4+ km/s, and do 90+ DPS from long point range. At best, it can do two of those things, unless you get into crazy faction/deadspace fittings.

I still don't like what they did to it (only fleet 'ceptor with 4 highs, only 'ceptor with two lows, etc.) and think it would have been sufficiently nerfed just by switching the damage bonus to an application bonus, but I'm adapting.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#18 - 2014-10-10 13:15:54 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
May Arethusa wrote:
That really depends upon your definition of good damage and decent tank, because the Crow can still do all of those things at once. Just not quite as well.

I'll get over the changes, just like I got over Rubicon 1.1. Doesn't mean they were smart moves on CCP's behalf though. Time will tell.

It can no longer fit an MSE, go 4+ km/s, and do 90+ DPS from long point range. At best, it can do two of those things, unless you get into crazy faction/deadspace fittings.

I still don't like what they did to it (only fleet 'ceptor with 4 highs, only 'ceptor with two lows, etc.) and think it would have been sufficiently nerfed just by switching the damage bonus to an application bonus, but I'm adapting.


It can do 94.6 DPS (overheated), with an MSE, and has a top speed of 4111m/s. That's assuming you simply modify the pre-patch Sniper Crow fit to account for the additional launcher. Or you can go for the version that does 105 DPS (overheated) and 3964m/s, with a MSE.

Interestingly a lot of people are simply ignoring the 4th launcher slot, and are getting similar (and in some cases more) DPS than the 4 launcher version, while avoiding all of the fitting restrictions the new slot layout imposes.

The problem I have with the changes is they completely fail to address the Crow's obvious range advantage, while simultaneously making it incredibly difficult to fit the ship for fleet tackle. The tighter fitting constraints actually encourage Sniper Crows, which are less CPU dependant.
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#19 - 2014-10-15 19:46:29 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Ginger Lunacy wrote:
Considering it lost most of it damage id say they have shat on the crow.All i have seen from ccp these last 2 years is nerf after nerf after nerf.The word they like to use is "rebalance".It almost as if they want us to quit so they can move on to another project..


Interceptors were never supposed to be able to kill things efficiently, crow was OP, anyone denying that is being deliberately obtuse.


Well thats a lie.

[Crow, rocking]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Experimental 1MN Afterburner I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Scourge Rage Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator II

Dual prop rocket crow is now even better.

Just because it can't fit LMLs doesn't make it ****.



Does ever so slightly more with non-scourge than the old dual prop crow used to do, but lose nearly 50 dps when shooting scourge thanks to the based low slot removal. LML crow is perfectly fittable if you're not ******** however:


[Crow, Top Smell]
Compact Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Disruptor II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator II


"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX