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No Safe Haven/Harbor for criminals in high sec

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#41 - 2014-10-08 04:59:45 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:



Until you have actually ever been -10 you have no idea what its like to try and operate at -10
Hence you have no idea what punishment is "appropriate"

We already need Instant undocks wherever we choose to dock as well as instant docks or you get poded on station 400m from being able to dock, we need multiple alts to be anything resembling efficient ( which costs us quite a bit of ISK mind you ). We need alts to bring us the ships we cant just grab at jita because of instant death if we did. Were chased Relentlessly by FACPOL and as a result cannot cloak, we lose standings with the empires so we cant create jump clones easily, we cant receive gate gun assistance in low sec ( or station guns either ). Were free targets everywhere you can imagine 23.9/7. Fixing sec status plus killrights would be more costly than it would be a benefit to us, and so on

I could probably go on for another 40 lines about what we have to deal with to keep our business alive, while you just log in, hop on comms, put an X in a channel and shoot red-crosses all day long for much more ISK, and much less risk. pony up, get an alt, go -10 and try to live in our shoes for 48 hours successfully. Then try and advocate a "safer Highsec" for everyone, you dont even have to Gank go to low sec and shoot people and pod them till you have the magic number as a badge of honor under your corp logo. Till then this crusade of yours is just tears in the wind



All of these "issues" are not really a problem when you use a dedicated gank alt. You can have alts bring you stuff and scout for you. Just check out the carnage in Uedama by -10s, or the people who spend all day ganking autopiloting shuttles. It's not hard - it's trivially easy.

You are free to have your opinions, as I am free to have mine. And mine is that the proliferation of career suicide gankers in highsec shows that the justice system is broken, and the lack of meaningful punishment will just mean more of the this craziness until real changes are made.


Purely for the record here, i dont think there is one GOOD Criminal Justice System revolving around crime and punishment anywhere on this planet, there are flaws, errors, red tape, and loopholes everywhere else in the world, so why not here?

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#42 - 2014-10-08 05:03:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Veers Belvar wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Your devolving into Dryson At an alarming rate here, seriously are you two cousins or something?
Or do you have midnight bookclub reading meetings together where you share these terrible ideas?


Or maybe it's just that like a lot of people in highsec I don't think that career suicide gankers should be able to operate without appropriate punishment.

Provide the punishment then. That is pretty much the point behind people becoming perma-suspects when they are below -5.0.

The system already stacks the odds in your favor by virtually requiring gankers to team up and work out all sorts of logistical hurdles. However, your own safety and want of punishment (beyond what currently exists) lies in YOUR hands.

If you see someone -5.0 undock from a station and do not attack them... that is your prerogative. But it also means YOU are allowing that person to "get away."
If you know of a POS that gankers are using for "safe haven" and choose not to knock it down (or hire someone to do it)... that is your prerogative. But it also means YOU are not doing anything about it and are letting the gankers have a "safe haven."

peoplewatcher wrote:
if you put up a POS it is on behalf of your Corporation/Alliance. Anyone with the right roles in your corp, can lock you out of your own POS. Especially if they remove your roles first.

Why would my own corp, that actively encourages and funds my activities, lock me out of the POS?

Hell... how did they get the roles to do so? I'm a goddamn director. Only the CEO can take away my roles. And he LIKES me. Blink

Angeal MacNova wrote:
So just to be clear (since reading the OP gave me this impression), if someone is -5 or lower and they enter hi-sec, they get chased by the faction navy and not CONCORD? And this same ship ganking someone no longer brings down the wrath of CONCORD?

Either the OP's post is off or my understanding of it....

There are 5 NPC forces.

CONCORD: they will only respond when a person (any person, regardless of security status) attacks a player without aggression flags of any kind in high-sec.
They do not care about the "victim's" survival are serve only as a punitive force... enforcing the idea that there is a cost to non-consensual PvP in high-sec of some kind or another.
CONCORD deals infinite damage with infinite warp disruptor strength and infinite Ewar strength. Evading CONCORD punishment is considered a EULA violation and offenders can be banned from the game.

Faction Police: they will respond to anyone whose Faction Standing and Security Status is [more or less] inverse to the security rating of the system. People who are -1.0 will be attacked in 1.0-0.9 systems, -2.0 will be attacked in 0.8 systems... all the way down to -5.0 which is attacked in any high-sec system.
Faction Police will web, scram, and apply their racial Ewar in addition to non-insignificant amounts of damage (but they can still be tanked and killed with the right setups).
Faction Police will chase a person around a system and WILL catch you if you are flying anything bigger/slower than a cruiser.

Faction Navy: they are Faction Warfare specific. Same as the Faction Police, but with less damage and no scrams.

Faction Customs/Corporate Police: they catch anyone carrying illegal cargo (and will attack them if the refuse to hand it over) and act as supplementary damage to any of the above forces.

Gate Guns: same ruleset as CONCORD... none of the UBERWTFBBQ damage. They can easily two shot frigates and untanked destroyers.

Veers Belvar wrote:
You are free to have your opinions, as I am free to have mine. And mine is that the proliferation of career suicide gankers in highsec shows that the justice system is broken, and the lack of meaningful punishment will just mean more of the this craziness until real changes are made.

Or maybe, just maybe, EVE is designed to be a dystopian world where things are not supposed to work right.

Just saying.

How did you Veterans start?
peoplewatcher
1silly2things3dogs4shots
#43 - 2014-10-08 05:10:00 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:


Until you have actually ever been -10 you have no idea what its like to try and operate at -10
Hence you have no idea what punishment is "appropriate"

We already need Instant undocks wherever we choose to dock as well as instant docks or you get poded on station 400m from being able to dock, we need multiple alts to be anything resembling efficient ( which costs us quite a bit of ISK mind you ). We need alts to bring us the ships we cant just grab at jita because of instant death if we did. Were chased Relentlessly by FACPOL and as a result cannot cloak, we lose standings with the empires so we cant create jump clones easily, we cant receive gate gun assistance in low sec ( or station guns either ). Were free targets everywhere you can imagine 23.9/7. Fixing sec status plus killrights would be more costly than it would be a benefit to us, and so on

I could probably go on for another 40 lines about what we have to deal with to keep our business alive, while you just log in, hop on comms, put an X in a channel and shoot red-crosses all day long for much more ISK, and much less risk. pony up, get an alt, go -10 and try to live in our shoes for 48 hours successfully. Then try and advocate a "safer Highsec" for everyone, you dont even have to Gank go to low sec and shoot people and pod them till you have the magic number as a badge of honor under your corp logo. Till then this crusade of yours is just tears in the wind



As are yours, nothing but tears in the wind.

You choose this career path. There should be no safe haven for criminals, not just gankers... CRIMINALS in high sec.

It also isn't hard to go out and rat for a while, buy/earn tags, and turn them in to the appropriate authorities and get your sec status up. There shouldn't be concessions because you want to maintain a criminal status.


Christopher Mabata wrote:

CCP has already said theyre not locking criminals out of highsec stations, because not just gankers are criminals.
And POS's are purchased by the player and set up and maintained by the player so logically they cant stop us from using our investments either. Thats like buying an orca and then CCP says orcas can no longer be used in highsec, so now your forced to eject and leave it floating in space, just sitting their as a reminder that you can never use that again even though you paid for it


That's a shame, they really should rethink this, if ganking was as prevalent as it is now when I started, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I would continued my subscription.

Again POS Structures are, as designed, not intended for personal ownership, but for corp/alliance ownership. As such, at least from CCPs side of things, they are preventing you (the one with a sec status lower than -5 ) access to a corp/alliance asset.

Theory crafting here, as I have not tested it, but if you were to put your POS Structures near the edge of the pos bubble (say within 1000M of the bubble you should still be able to access the items inside the structure (such as a ship hangar, etc).
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#44 - 2014-10-08 05:11:12 UTC
Quote:

Or maybe, just maybe, EVE is designed to be a dystopian world where things are not supposed to work right.

Just saying.


That was the best way to put it i have heard in a long time

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#45 - 2014-10-08 05:14:09 UTC
peoplewatcher wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:


Until you have actually ever been -10 you have no idea what its like to try and operate at -10
Hence you have no idea what punishment is "appropriate"

We already need Instant undocks wherever we choose to dock as well as instant docks or you get poded on station 400m from being able to dock, we need multiple alts to be anything resembling efficient ( which costs us quite a bit of ISK mind you ). We need alts to bring us the ships we cant just grab at jita because of instant death if we did. Were chased Relentlessly by FACPOL and as a result cannot cloak, we lose standings with the empires so we cant create jump clones easily, we cant receive gate gun assistance in low sec ( or station guns either ). Were free targets everywhere you can imagine 23.9/7. Fixing sec status plus killrights would be more costly than it would be a benefit to us, and so on

I could probably go on for another 40 lines about what we have to deal with to keep our business alive, while you just log in, hop on comms, put an X in a channel and shoot red-crosses all day long for much more ISK, and much less risk. pony up, get an alt, go -10 and try to live in our shoes for 48 hours successfully. Then try and advocate a "safer Highsec" for everyone, you dont even have to Gank go to low sec and shoot people and pod them till you have the magic number as a badge of honor under your corp logo. Till then this crusade of yours is just tears in the wind



As are yours, nothing but tears in the wind.

You choose this career path. There should be no safe haven for criminals, not just gankers... CRIMINALS in high sec.

It also isn't hard to go out and rat for a while, buy/earn tags, and turn them in to the appropriate authorities and get your sec status up. There shouldn't be concessions because you want to maintain a criminal status.


Christopher Mabata wrote:

CCP has already said theyre not locking criminals out of highsec stations, because not just gankers are criminals.
And POS's are purchased by the player and set up and maintained by the player so logically they cant stop us from using our investments either. Thats like buying an orca and then CCP says orcas can no longer be used in highsec, so now your forced to eject and leave it floating in space, just sitting their as a reminder that you can never use that again even though you paid for it


That's a shame, they really should rethink this, if ganking was as prevalent as it is now when I started, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I would continued my subscription.

Again POS Structures are, as designed, not intended for personal ownership, but for corp/alliance ownership. As such, at least from CCPs side of things, they are preventing you (the one with a sec status lower than -5 ) access to a corp/alliance asset.

Theory crafting here, as I have not tested it, but if you were to put your POS Structures near the edge of the pos bubble (say within 1000M of the bubble you should still be able to access the items inside the structure (such as a ship hangar, etc).



No that doesnt work the dome shield stops any interaction with anything inside

And if you cant adapt to an increase in one population and would quit over it then your not needed in highsec anymore than you are anywhere else. Eve is adapt or die, plain and simple, its also a dystopian society where these things arent supposed to be perfect like the other guy said. So you either live within the bounds of the system, or you get out of the box and think outside of the box.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#46 - 2014-10-08 05:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Quote:
Again POS Structures are, as designed, not intended for personal ownership, but for corp/alliance ownership. As such, at least from CCPs side of things, they are preventing you (the one with a sec status lower than -5 ) access to a corp/alliance asset.

What if the whole corp is DEDICATED to ganking (or supporting it)? Where is the logic in locking out people who put it up for the specific purpose of fielding assets for ganking?

Quote:
Theory crafting here, as I have not tested it, but if you were to put your POS Structures near the edge of the pos bubble (say within 1000M of the bubble you should still be able to access the items inside the structure (such as a ship hangar, etc).

The shield bubble will always be the same distance away from the control tower. If the control tower is moved, so is the shield.

This also speaks volumes about how much you know about the actual mechanics and reality at work here.

Quote:
if ganking was as prevalent as it is now when I started, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I would continued my subscription.

I remember it being far more COMMON years ago.

Back in the day... you could just grab a battleship, insure it, warp into a belt, and gank the first ship you saw. Success or failure didn't matter because you would get insurance.

Today, you have to put a lot of effort into organizing people to perform even one gank (see: it is "simple" in planning and execution, but not "easy" to do).
Those who continue suicide ganking have just gotten VERY good at it and operate like a well oiled machine. And they get away with it because there are SO MANY MORE targets compared to years ago (because the game population has increased). And people just don't fight back or avoid them like they used to (because people have gotten complacent with all the security buffs and it will cut into the time they can spend making ISK).

How did you Veterans start?
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#47 - 2014-10-08 05:27:56 UTC
Nope.









(stares back blankly) What? That's it.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#48 - 2014-10-08 05:29:49 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Quote:
Again POS Structures are, as designed, not intended for personal ownership, but for corp/alliance ownership. As such, at least from CCPs side of things, they are preventing you (the one with a sec status lower than -5 ) access to a corp/alliance asset.

What if the whole corp is DEDICATED to ganking (or supporting it)? Where is the logic in locking out people who put it up for the specific purpose of fielding assets for ganking?

Quote:
Theory crafting here, as I have not tested it, but if you were to put your POS Structures near the edge of the pos bubble (say within 1000M of the bubble you should still be able to access the items inside the structure (such as a ship hangar, etc).

The shield bubble will always be the same distance away from the control tower. If the control tower is moved, so is the shield.

This also speaks volumes about how much you know about the actual mechanics and reality at work here.



I think he was talking about SMA's and such, but instead it devolved rapidly to a simple SMH

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#49 - 2014-10-08 05:31:44 UTC
peoplewatcher
1silly2things3dogs4shots
#50 - 2014-10-08 05:36:59 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:


No that doesnt work the dome shield stops any interaction with anything inside


Thanks for the clarification, I was unaware of that.

Christopher Mabata wrote:

And if you cant adapt to an increase in one population and would quit over it then your not needed in highsec anymore than you are anywhere else. Eve is adapt or die, plain and simple, its also a dystopian society where these things arent supposed to be perfect like the other guy said. So you either live within the bounds of the system, or you get out of the box and think outside of the box.


The same can be said about making high sec a safer place, especially for newbies. The problem is that it becomes a massive struggle to even buy the skill books needed to progress in the game when your only options for isk making are to mine or run missions. An hour of low skill mining wins against an hour of running l1 missions with low skills. Taking away one of the main isk making abilities of newbies is not acceptable.

Why is it the industrialists have to adapt to a more criminal world, why can't the criminals adapt to a "safer" world? The coin flips both ways. You (figuratively) have asked industrialists to adapt to your more criminal society, we industrialists are asking for more sanctions to be imposed on criminals.

From the lore I remember, eve is not supposed to be a dystopian society. It is supposed to be a highly advanced society that is on the brink of war. We, those of us in pods, hold a special place in this society, a place of high honor, we are the few who were selected to protect the worlds below.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#51 - 2014-10-08 05:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
peoplewatcher wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:


No that doesnt work the dome shield stops any interaction with anything inside


Thanks for the clarification, I was unaware of that.

Christopher Mabata wrote:

And if you cant adapt to an increase in one population and would quit over it then your not needed in highsec anymore than you are anywhere else. Eve is adapt or die, plain and simple, its also a dystopian society where these things arent supposed to be perfect like the other guy said. So you either live within the bounds of the system, or you get out of the box and think outside of the box.


The same can be said about making high sec a safer place, especially for newbies. The problem is that it becomes a massive struggle to even buy the skill books needed to progress in the game when your only options for isk making are to mine or run missions. An hour of low skill mining wins against an hour of running l1 missions with low skills. Taking away one of the main isk making abilities of newbies is not acceptable.

Why is it the industrialists have to adapt to a more criminal world, why can't the criminals adapt to a "safer" world? The coin flips both ways. You (figuratively) have asked industrialists to adapt to your more criminal society, we industrialists are asking for more sanctions to be imposed on criminals.

From the lore I remember, eve is not supposed to be a dystopian society. It is supposed to be a highly advanced society that is on the brink of war. We, those of us in pods, hold a special place in this society, a place of high honor, we are the few who were selected to protect the worlds below.



Ok now this is a discussion i like, not just the usual crap ideas being tossed around and personal attacks
So +1 for that

1. Highsec is largely safe for Newbros, they have access to 0.9 and 1.0 systems where concord responds in single digit seconds every single time making ganking them much more risky, you could alpha them yes but then a dev will perma ban you for it. I have an Alt in CODE. CCP contacted us and said you guys gank newbros and were going to have a problem, only warning. The same goes for any other gank group out there and its in the official rules as well that you dont do that. and so we dont

2. There are a lot more available options than missions and mining for new players, on a 3 day old alt i was shipping goods between Jita and another hub and making about 40m a day at first, then within 3 days i was making 200m a day doing it. Its not hard and its largely passive. Then you have PI, Sites, Exploration, Actual industry thanks to crius, ratting, or more. So in short your not in a box if you dont want to be in the box

3. Industrialists have been crying about ganking longer than i can remember, CCP has nerfed it more than a few times, and in turn has forced players to adapt on your end as well ( a long time ago a procurer could be ganked by a rifter so if think you have it bad now then that should speak for itself. ) CCP Falcon also said why should they have to provide for your safety when there are other mechanics that players can already use and have been using ( this has been refered to as the legendary "Falcon Punch" google it and once you get through the nintendo stuff you will find it )

4. No that wasnt the lore at all, were literally demi gods slinging weapons more destructive than nukes at eachother and so the empires let us duke it out with eachother rather than on the citizens of the empires and the empires themselves. Missions let you kill the empires instead but largely we just kill eachother instead.

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#52 - 2014-10-08 06:06:55 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
peoplewatcher wrote:
I do not believe that High Sec should be 100% safe. I do think it should be safer than it is.


As a highsec resident who rather likes his 5.0 security status and is terrible at PvP, let me tell you one thing:

If highsec gets any safer, even a tiny little bit, IT WILL BE 100% COMPLETELY SAFE.

Highsec is already so ridiculously safe that words fail to properly express it. I just don't even understand how you don't get this.

Additionally, show us on the doll where the big mean ganker touched you. Preferably before the imminent ripping-to-shreds that's about to descend upon this thread.


This is a very tired drum to beat. What can be done is tightening wardec rules to 24hr setup, 72hr disable (without mutual retraction).

Highsec is safe relative to the value of what you have and what you fly.

Also harbouring pirates is dumb at an ideological level and probably from a mechanical perspective as well. There are plenty of isolated lowsec harbours for them sandwiched inside of highsec, ship in lowsec, move to high to carry out the gank, return to low in your pod. Someone else collects the payment/loot/ransom. Like a real merc.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#53 - 2014-10-08 06:28:40 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, EVE is designed to be a dystopian world where things are not supposed to work right.

Just saying.


Yes, it is. And so many people love it. That's why they all come back from the most dystopian areas of space in the game to areas of space, where it's less dystopian. Go figure. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#54 - 2014-10-08 06:32:50 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, EVE is designed to be a dystopian world where things are not supposed to work right.

Just saying.


Yes, it is. And so many people love it. That's why they all come back from the most dystopian areas of space in the game to areas of space, where it's less dystopian. Go figure. Roll


well eventually everyone has to stop by Jita
The smell never quite washes off though
reminds me of spoiled milk mixed with distilled water and a touch of musk

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#55 - 2014-10-08 06:38:09 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, EVE is designed to be a dystopian world where things are not supposed to work right.

Just saying.


Yes, it is. And so many people love it. That's why they all come back from the most dystopian areas of space in the game to areas of space, where it's less dystopian. Go figure. Roll


well eventually everyone has to stop by Jita
The smell never quite washes off though
reminds me of spoiled milk mixed with distilled water and a touch of musk


No, you don't. Ever. You just need to play the game properly. Blink

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#56 - 2014-10-08 06:39:09 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Or maybe, just maybe, EVE is designed to be a dystopian world where things are not supposed to work right.

Just saying.


Yes, it is. And so many people love it. That's why they all come back from the most dystopian areas of space in the game to areas of space, where it's less dystopian. Go figure. Roll


well eventually everyone has to stop by Jita
The smell never quite washes off though
reminds me of spoiled milk mixed with distilled water and a touch of musk


No, you don't. Ever. You just need to play the game properly. Blink


meh i do that too
but jita is like alcohol
you now its bad for you in the wrong amount, but sometimes you just need a little fix

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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peoplewatcher
1silly2things3dogs4shots
#57 - 2014-10-08 06:40:24 UTC  |  Edited by: peoplewatcher
Christopher Mabata wrote:

Ok now this is a discussion i like, not just the usual crap ideas being tossed around and personal attacks
So +1 for that


I have been trying to keep this on a non-personal level.

Christopher Mabata wrote:

1. Highsec is largely safe for Newbros, they have access to 0.9 and 1.0 systems where concord responds in single digit seconds every single time making ganking them much more risky, you could alpha them yes but then a dev will perma ban you for it. I have an Alt in CODE. CCP contacted us and said you guys gank newbros and were going to have a problem, only warning. The same goes for any other gank group out there and its in the official rules as well that you dont do that. and so we dont


Yes, the negative being that there is rarely much, if any mins to mine in those systems. The belts are usually empty in newbie systems.

Christopher Mabata wrote:

2. There are a lot more available options than missions and mining for new players, on a 3 day old alt i was shipping goods between Jita and another hub and making about 40m a day at first, then within 3 days i was making 200m a day doing it. Its not hard and its largely passive. Then you have PI, Sites, Exploration, Actual industry thanks to crius, ratting, or more. So in short your not in a box if you dont want to be in the box


This is not an option often explored by newbies, seeing as how they usually don't know about this even being an option. Through the tuts they learn 3 things: 1) mining, 2) missions, 3) exploration.... sort of.

Christopher Mabata wrote:

3. Industrialists have been crying about ganking longer than i can remember, CCP has nerfed it more than a few times, and in turn has forced players to adapt on your end as well ( a long time ago a procurer could be ganked by a rifter so if think you have it bad now then that should speak for itself. ) CCP Falcon also said why should they have to provide for your safety when there are other mechanics that players can already use and have been using ( this has been refered to as the legendary "Falcon Punch" google it and once you get through the nintendo stuff you will find it )


I remember those times, but they have also nerfed the mining ships as well. I also remember times when suicide ganking was not even in the picture, something that happened so rarely that no one cared when it did happen. There wasn't entire alliances dedicated to suicide. (this is my oppn) Entire alliances that seem to act a lot like certain zealous groups in the real world. The funny thing about CODE. is that they are not who they say they are. The are not about taking out the "bot aspirant," they are about market PvP, pure and simple. That is for another topic though.

TL;DR
CODE. = lulz in the front + profits out the back

Christopher Mabata wrote:

4. No that wasnt the lore at all, were literally demi gods slinging weapons more destructive than nukes at eachother and so the empires let us duke it out with eachother rather than on the citizens of the empires and the empires themselves. Missions let you kill the empires instead but largely we just kill eachother instead.

[/quote]

I was more talking about how capsluleers came into being, and the role we are supposed to be playing. I haven't read into it, nor looked
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#58 - 2014-10-08 06:41:45 UTC
peoplewatcher wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
peoplewatcher wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:


No that doesnt work the dome shield stops any interaction with anything inside


Thanks for the clarification, I was unaware of that.

Christopher Mabata wrote:

And if you cant adapt to an increase in one population and would quit over it then your not needed in highsec anymore than you are anywhere else. Eve is adapt or die, plain and simple, its also a dystopian society where these things arent supposed to be perfect like the other guy said. So you either live within the bounds of the system, or you get out of the box and think outside of the box.


The same can be said about making high sec a safer place, especially for newbies. The problem is that it becomes a massive struggle to even buy the skill books needed to progress in the game when your only options for isk making are to mine or run missions. An hour of low skill mining wins against an hour of running l1 missions with low skills. Taking away one of the main isk making abilities of newbies is not acceptable.

Why is it the industrialists have to adapt to a more criminal world, why can't the criminals adapt to a "safer" world? The coin flips both ways. You (figuratively) have asked industrialists to adapt to your more criminal society, we industrialists are asking for more sanctions to be imposed on criminals.

From the lore I remember, eve is not supposed to be a dystopian society. It is supposed to be a highly advanced society that is on the brink of war. We, those of us in pods, hold a special place in this society, a place of high honor, we are the few who were selected to protect the worlds below.



Ok now this is a discussion i like, not just the usual crap ideas being tossed around and personal attacks
So +1 for that

1. Highsec is largely safe for Newbros, they have access to 0.9 and 1.0 systems where concord responds in single digit seconds every single time making ganking them much more risky, you could alpha them yes but then a dev will perma ban you for it. I have an Alt in CODE. CCP contacted us and said you guys gank newbros and were going to have a problem, only warning. The same goes for any other gank group out there and its in the official rules as well that you dont do that. and so we dont

2. There are a lot more available options than missions and mining for new players, on a 3 day old alt i was shipping goods between Jita and another hub and making about 40m a day at first, then within 3 days i was making 200m a day doing it. Its not hard and its largely passive. Then you have PI, Sites, Exploration, Actual industry thanks to crius, ratting, or more. So in short your not in a box if you dont want to be in the box

3. Industrialists have been crying about ganking longer than i can remember, CCP has nerfed it more than a few times, and in turn has forced players to adapt on your end as well ( a long time ago a procurer could be ganked by a rifter so if think you have it bad now then that should speak for itself. ) CCP Falcon also said why should they have to provide for your safety when there are other mechanics that players can already use and have been using ( this has been refered to as the legendary "Falcon Punch" google it and once you get through the nintendo stuff you will find it )

4. No that wasnt the lore at all, were literally demi gods slinging weapons more destructive than nukes at eachother and so the empires let us duke it out with eachother rather than on the citizens of the empires and the empires themselves. Missions let you kill the empires instead but largely we just kill eachother instead.



were you trying to say something or does the cat have your tongue ?

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#59 - 2014-10-08 06:43:34 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
No, you don't. Ever. You just need to play the game properly. Blink


meh i do that too
but jita is like alcohol
you now its bad for you in the wrong amount, but sometimes you just need a little fix


That is your own decision and you are entitled to make such. But please don't make it look like there is no way around going to Jita to get what you need. That is outright wrong. Blink

Not going to Jita is certainly less convenient, but we play a dystopian game, right? And convenience is not exactly a cornerstone of a dystopia. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-10-08 06:55:32 UTC
Bad ideas are bad. No more security rules for highsec it is already too safe .

.1