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Non-compliant distance measures.

Author
Takatak Patchkof
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-10-07 02:57:41 UTC
Salute to you fellow adventurers and developers,

During the past five years, trying to play EVE Online equal amount of times, finally I am making it through tedious beginning and discovering beauties of daily virtual universe conquest. However, while playing EVE, I notice there is some noncompliance with the distance/length measures in EVE; for clarity I advise take a look at the attached distance screenshot.

The screenshot was taken during a mining operation. You can see the distance of the Venture vessel to the asteroid is indicated in distance measurement of "4m". This indicates, the average mining beam length would need to be about 4 meters long. While viewing the vessel info, it can be seen the Venture volume is about 30,000 m3. This means, based on the proportion of the vessel, its rough measurement/dimension should be about 20x25x60m. However, while looking at the attached screenshot with indicated 4m length, it seems as if Venture was only about 1m long. Further, getting asteroid info (not attached here), we can see the asteroid radius is about 300 meters.

Summarizing, EVE Online dimension handling/scaling does not maintain proportions. This was demonstrated on the example of starter mining vessel, Venture, in relation to its distance to an asteroid, and radius of the asteroid. From the volume of the vessel (30,000m3) it was assumed its length must be about 60m that was compared to the vessel 4m distance to the asteroid and 300m asteroid radius. The comparison proves the in-game environment dimension proportions are not maintained.

I suggest, this should be one of the priorities for developers to fix in order to maintain the reality of the EVE experience.

All the best fellow gamers!
Valkin Mordirc
#2 - 2014-10-07 03:02:28 UTC
I'm all for realism and the such, and I'm glad you had the time to notice this.


However, it really isn't an issue.


Neat though.
#DeleteTheWeak
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-10-07 03:08:17 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I'm all for realism and the such, and I'm glad you had the time to notice this.


However, it really isn't an issue.


Neat though.


There was also a time when stargates had a volume of 1m3.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#4 - 2014-10-07 03:12:15 UTC
In EVE Online model size =/= axis size.

The server sees everything as a "sphere" with a certain diameter which results in that distance between your ship and the asteroid in your screenshot (see: the distance is between the two respective "spheres" and not the models).

The actual model size of every ship and object in space is completely separate from this and is all done on the client side.

Also... the volumes of ships are more or less class specific and are made for balancing reasons.


tldr; I think you are taking this a wee bit too seriously and need to be reminded that every sci-fi setting (especially a game setting) requires a certain level of "suspension of disbelief."
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2014-10-07 03:14:13 UTC
The issue is caused by A: Scale of screenshot and B: Your faulty understanding of game stats.
Distance in game is not 'How close till our hulls touch' but 'how close till my warp bubble interacts and forces me away'
Warp bubble always being in existence if your ship is in space.

Further the 'size' is not actually a water displacement volume but an effective measurement for carrying the object that includes other things than pure water displacement.

Lastly, if you go to ship info and bring up the detailed portrait you can save yourself maths and get the length or longest axis of the ship (Certain ships have longest axis as they are high, not long) right there on the portrait.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#6 - 2014-10-07 03:23:17 UTC
One thing about EVE players is that they never cease to surprise me with the unusual things they find to fixate on.

Mr Epeen Cool
Rouen-Michel en Lefevre
#7 - 2014-10-07 04:12:23 UTC
I don't think this is the primary immersion-breaking lack of realism in a game where spaceships behave more like they are underwater than in space.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#8 - 2014-10-07 04:15:12 UTC
Came expecting a discussion of distance-measuring permits. Leaving disappointed.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2014-10-07 04:54:55 UTC
Rouen-Michel en Lefevre wrote:
I don't think this is the primary immersion-breaking lack of realism in a game where spaceships behave more like they are underwater than in space.

Already explained via space time drag of the warp field from your ships generator and engines that can't be shut down in space (Hence why you explode so violently)
Simply because it doesn't match Newtonian physics doesn't make it 'wrong'
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#10 - 2014-10-07 07:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Holland
Takatak Patchkof wrote:
The screenshot was taken during a mining operation. You can see the distance of the Venture vessel to the asteroid is indicated in distance measurement of "4m". This indicates, the average mining beam length would need to be about 4 meters long. While viewing the vessel info, it can be seen the Venture volume is about 30,000 m3. This means, based on the proportion of the vessel, its rough measurement/dimension should be about 20x25x60m. However, while looking at the attached screenshot with indicated 4m length, it seems as if Venture was only about 1m long. Further, getting asteroid info (not attached here), we can see the asteroid radius is about 300 meters.

The beam is not 4m long...
The distance quoted is between the maximum extent of the asteroid and the maximum extent on the ship - given the dimensions you've quoted that means 30m (ship long axis radius) + 4m (quoted distance) + 300m (asteroid long axis radius) centre to centre - and if the roid is only 100m in diameter (short axis) that means the beam could easily be nearly 300m long.

Check out the EVEUni presentation from last FanFest; Geometry in EVE (skip through the first half - he really is rehearsing).

Edit:
Added Link
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#11 - 2014-10-07 12:15:19 UTC
tl;dr: OP is doing it wrong.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Vyl Vit
#12 - 2014-10-07 18:18:37 UTC
You fail to take into account the technology we all use, designed into our ships (similar to Dr. Who's Tardus) that allows for a significant warp in the time/space fabric to allow larger volumes to appear to be stored in smaller containers. The length of your 4m laser beam, however, is totally illusory, as you'd have to be either outside your ship to get a side view of it, or under the influence of a powerful psychotropic to imagine it. Big smile

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-10-07 19:09:07 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
The length of your 4m laser beam, however, is totally illusory, as you'd have to be either outside your ship to get a side view of it, or under the influence of a powerful psychotropic to imagine it. Big smile


Incorrect.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Camera_drones_%28lore%29
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#14 - 2014-10-07 21:13:43 UTC
Some say it is not a problem, but it bugs me also., especially when you get into a cap ship... it just does not seem that big. They have improved the scale quite a bit, and I know it is an EXTREMELY complicated and tricky thing to manage in a game like this, but it would be nice to take another pass at it.

Stations should be HUUUUUUUUUGE.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#15 - 2014-10-07 21:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Some say it is not a problem, but it bugs me also., especially when you get into a cap ship... it just does not seem that big. They have improved the scale quite a bit, and I know it is an EXTREMELY complicated and tricky thing to manage in a game like this, but it would be nice to take another pass at it.

Stations should be HUUUUUUUUUGE.


The main problem with scale is that most pilots fly around zoomed in as tight as they can get on their ship.

Want to feel how big a station is? Zoom out and then compare the size to your ship.

Mr Epeen Cool
Takatak Patchkof
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-10-08 01:03:41 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:

Check out the EVEUni presentation from last FanFest; Geometry in EVE (skip through the first half - he really is rehearsing).
Edit: Added Link


Excellent presentation. Many thanks for the link. I guess his explanations resolve my issue. Best!
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-10-08 13:50:46 UTC
Cubits is the answer you're looking for.