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The Prospect and Low-Sec Mining
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WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-10-07 13:43:46 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Fit a covert ops cyno on that Prospect, get some miners to join you in low sec.

Light cyno, have some sb's cyno in for some win.


That sounds like the ultimate evil master plan but you need a black ops to bridge them. Sorry if i'm too obvious but i don't want the op to believe that bombers can lock on covert cynos.
0wl
Hailbird
#22 - 2014-10-07 14:07:11 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?

yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july.


I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally.
Dave stark
#23 - 2014-10-07 14:12:58 UTC
0wl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?

yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july.


I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally.


so you want a prospect with the yield of a hulk? which is even more unbalanced.
0wl
Hailbird
#24 - 2014-10-07 15:08:32 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
0wl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?

yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july.


I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally.


so you want a prospect with the yield of a hulk? which is even more unbalanced.


At what stage in the thread or original post did I mention anything about changing the ship? I'm pretty sure I said it was fine the way it was. The point of the original post is about the risk vs reward balance low-sec mining has over high-sec, with the perefectly capable ship, the Prospect.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#25 - 2014-10-07 15:23:26 UTC
My proposal for a mining overhaul contains a portion about Vein Mining, which would lend itself perfectly to the agile ninja mining the Prospect and Venture offer. Just a little shameless plug.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#26 - 2014-10-07 16:47:40 UTC
Captain Awkward wrote:
There is no encouragement to go for the ore with the highest value. Only for the highest value per m³ in your cargo hold (That is easily reachable without to mutch traveling).
A logical fix to this would be to reduce the m³ "penalty"per unit as the ore value goes up to also increse its value per m³. But I cant tell whan consequenses this would have and why the devs had chosen to increase m³ for higher value ores in the first place.


The consequence would - obviously - be that values per m^3 would change until the relative value per m^3 of readily accessible ores was about the same once more.
Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-10-07 16:59:02 UTC
Ochre? Hah!
Go to nullsec and you'll be eating Arkonor for breakfast.

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."
Torneach Structor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-10-07 17:08:34 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Dear 0wl,

Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.

Ever read a book?

Those were proper paragraphs in the OP.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#29 - 2014-10-07 22:26:51 UTC
From my perspective the only reason to mine in lowsec would be to not having to haul minerals into lowsec. Pick your poison really. I mine mostly gas in a Venture if at all, I'm no big manufacturer (my carebear SP is more in Science and PI) but some dudes in our corp do mine ore. They use cheap replaceable T1 barges (indeed a better margin) and have trigger-happy friends on comms though. Half of their role is bait, and our guys happily take diminished yield in exchange for killlmails and survival rates.

The Prospect is the only ship that shares a Gas Harvesting bonus with the Venture. If I were you I would train for T2 Gas Harvesters and a Blockade Runner / Deep Space Transport. In my experience the best lowsec gas sites are worth mining, and T2 Harvesters really help doing it quicker. Ore mining is what I'd do when I'd find a Mordus blueprint and want to manufacture it locally, and then only if I'd miss a few thousand units here and there. Mining is a means to an end, a last-resort activity you do in secret when you are so drunk you don't feel shame. It's that or welping something just to not log off. Lol
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#30 - 2014-10-07 22:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dehval
Robert Sawyer wrote:
Ochre? Hah!
Go to nullsec and you'll be eating Arkonor for breakfast.

And then you find out that it is actually more profitable to mine Plagiocase, a rock that litters everywhere but Amarrian space, than it is to mine Arkonor. The only null ore with any value right now is Gneiss with the holy "ABCS" down mingling with Veldspar and Scordite fighting for second to last place (Omber has been the worst for a while now).

The OP has a very valid point. There is no benefit to mining the higher end ores because the m3 penalty is too great. There is no need to make new ore variants that have +25/50% refine rates, they just need to lower the volume of existing ores so that you can mine more units per cycle.

It isn't like there is going to be much exporting to highsec in the coming months after the jump changes hit. The markets might not even flinch past the initial speculators doing their thing.
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-10-07 22:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Desimus Maximus
Just with everything else, CCP says either go all in with a group and get stupid rich... or live off bread crumbs that aren't worth anything. The Prospect is nothing more than an illusion. Aside from renter ISK and moon goo there are 2 levels of pve... mining missioning in empire is the low level, but it will all be about the same reward over time regardless of which direction you go... and mining/ratting in null. a little more ISK but it is all relatively equal for time spent.. and little ISK at that. Per character of course. If you are multiboxing (clear violation of CCP's own EULA) then obviously more ISK.
Charax Bouclier
Silvershield Universal
#32 - 2014-10-08 02:04:51 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
To put some sense into this...

Minerals are used for building 90% of the stuff out there.

If the prices of minerals goes up,
the prices of everything built with them goes up in the long run.

If the prices of minerals go down,
the prices of everything built with them goes down.

Miners who whine about low income only see the numbers and are unaware
of the fact that they earn pretty much always the same value relative to everything else.

Pushing up the number pushes up prices. At first they might think they earn more,
but in the end they will whine again, because everything costs more too.


Perhaps your conclusions might be true if a miner also uses all of his income to purchase player created goods. However, there are other things to spend ISK on (PLEX, characters, wardecs, office rent blah blah blah), where you are comparing your relative revenue streams against players deriving income from other sources (say missions for example). So, higher ore prices should benefit the miner overall.
Xeator
soldiers.fi
#33 - 2014-10-08 03:48:59 UTC
Lowsec mining needs to be REALLY REALLY lucrative to attract miners.

Its not, so it doesnt. Every now and then some new guy pokes into lowsec and gets popped by locals or rats or whatever. Then they go back to highsec mining and never return.

Income from mining in lowsec really needs to be crazy good. Miners will never go there because they get blown up, they are already having a hard time with CODE so why risk it even more? Exactly.

Crazy good income means someone will want to mine it. If not the highsec miners then the locals. No matter who, but if there were people mining in lowsec it would also be a positive thing for pirates. Lots of juicy targets waiting to be killed.
Solecist Project
#34 - 2014-10-08 07:49:48 UTC
Torneach Structor wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Dear 0wl,

Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.

Ever read a book?

Those were proper paragraphs in the OP.

No, they weren't.
Screen != Book.

Not even remotely comparable, superficial scrub.



Charax Bouclier wrote:
Perhaps your conclusions might be true if a miner also uses all of his income to purchase player created goods. However, there are other things to spend ISK on (PLEX, characters, wardecs, office rent blah blah blah), where you are comparing your relative revenue streams against players deriving income from other sources (say missions for example). So, higher ore prices should benefit the miner overall.
"Overall".
There are more things to spend for which his purchasing power always stays the same, than not.
Besides ... your points are randomly chosen and too general. (wardecs, really lol)
And, increasing the isk/hr would only make PLEX prices go higher.


Besides all that, your argument is none. For a miner to earn more,
everything else automatically gets more expensive too.

It doesn't change anything I said in my post.


There is no "overall benefit" from higher ore prices.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dave stark
#35 - 2014-10-08 14:04:55 UTC
0wl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
0wl wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
so basically, you want a hulk with a cov-ops cloak?

yeah, that's about as likely to happen as christmas in july.


I'm not a fan of flying pinata's, personally.


so you want a prospect with the yield of a hulk? which is even more unbalanced.


At what stage in the thread or original post did I mention anything about changing the ship? I'm pretty sure I said it was fine the way it was. The point of the original post is about the risk vs reward balance low-sec mining has over high-sec, with the perefectly capable ship, the Prospect.


since you can't make low sec less risky, you want more reward, which would only be achieved by giving the prospect the yield of a hulk.
Snuse
Sofakroken Mineralutvinning AS
#36 - 2014-10-08 14:45:56 UTC
0wl wrote:
The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ...


The numbers have always been wrong. I think they are just to afraid of how it will affect the economy if lowsec activities had rewards scale with risk.
Dave stark
#37 - 2014-10-08 15:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Snuse wrote:
0wl wrote:
The gameplay is there, but the numbers are wrong in my opinion, this is a bit sad, because its back to high sec mining I go ...


The numbers have always been wrong. I think they are just to afraid of how it will affect the economy if lowsec activities had rewards scale with risk.


or, y'know... ccp can't do **** about the income of mining since your income is from selling rocks to other players and the game is built upon a player driven economy.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-10-08 17:00:18 UTC
Xeator wrote:
Lowsec mining needs to be REALLY REALLY lucrative to attract miners.

Its not, so it doesnt. Every now and then some new guy pokes into lowsec and gets popped by locals or rats or whatever. Then they go back to highsec mining and never return.

Income from mining in lowsec really needs to be crazy good. Miners will never go there because they get blown up, they are already having a hard time with CODE so why risk it even more? Exactly.

Crazy good income means someone will want to mine it. If not the highsec miners then the locals. No matter who, but if there were people mining in lowsec it would also be a positive thing for pirates. Lots of juicy targets waiting to be killed.


An easy start would be to improve the NPC stations in low and add laboratories/manufacturing lines to most of them. If manufacturing was more feasible in low, mining in the same system would be much more interesting.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
MsArj
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-10-08 17:12:15 UTC
Prospect should get some benefit, or atleast it should be worthwhile.

Done just the same as the OP and it feels kinda gimped.
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-10-08 17:12:56 UTC
Torneach Structor wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Dear 0wl,

Please consider adding proper paragraphs for ease of readability.

Ever read a book?

Those were proper paragraphs in the OP.


She....
Probably has......
....read books....
But....
They were all......
....like....this.....