These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

0% Tax POCO idea
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Alisarina
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2011-12-12 12:59:40 UTC
OK so I just saw someone playing around with this idea and I liked it myself.

It's pretty basic. The person sets up several POCO's in a quiet low sec system and sets tax to zero (yes, tax free) and just seeing how it ends up going as an experiment.

So pretty much how many people would use them and what would the chances be of them being blown up if they are set to zero tax for everyone that wants to use them? I assume the usual 'haters gonna hate' will still want to blow them up.

I think the reasoning behind it (no tax) was if they use them themselves, over a week or two they save themselves the cost of the POCO in PI product profit.

So how you people react to it? If it's positive I may end up doing it as a side project to see what actually happens.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#2 - 2011-12-12 13:06:18 UTC
Alisarina wrote:
OK so I just saw someone playing around with this idea and I liked it myself.

It's pretty basic. The person sets up several POCO's in a quiet low sec system and sets tax to zero (yes, tax free) and just seeing how it ends up going as an experiment.

So pretty much how many people would use them and what would the chances be of them being blown up if they are set to zero tax for everyone that wants to use them? I assume the usual 'haters gonna hate' will still want to blow them up.

I think the reasoning behind it (no tax) was if they use them themselves, over a week or two they save themselves the cost of the POCO in PI product profit.

So how you people react to it? If it's positive I may end up doing it as a side project to see what actually happens.



Blow it up to make sure I keep access to 0% tax PI.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alisarina
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2011-12-12 13:22:47 UTC
Yes, everyone likes a big boom lol
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2011-12-12 13:32:53 UTC
Alisarina wrote:
Yes, everyone likes a big boom lol


Just because you're giving me 0 tax now, doesn't mean you will tomorrow. If I have the power to, I will go ahead and Boom boom your POCO to make sure I get 0 tax tomorrow.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alisarina
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2011-12-12 13:48:58 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Alisarina wrote:
Yes, everyone likes a big boom lol


Just because you're giving me 0 tax now, doesn't mean you will tomorrow. If I have the power to, I will go ahead and Boom boom your POCO to make sure I get 0 tax tomorrow.



Mmm...thats something I didn't think about. Guess it would be a case of a guarantee from someone you don't trust which is worth about as much as a bag of dog crap on fire on your front door step. Guess I didn't think about it.

Maybe need to work on a 'fool proof' plan as me saying 'guaranteed 0% tax' makes osme people uncomfortable as tax levels could go up without notice (which they wouldn't but then we are back to square one: lack of trust).
Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-12-12 13:58:34 UTC
I would rather trust you keeping the tax at some level since you would be making money with it. 0% looks too much of trying to bait. Why would you let everyone exploit the planets for free?
Bath Sheeba
Another Success Story
#7 - 2011-12-12 17:21:59 UTC
Sutskop wrote:
I would rather trust you keeping the tax at some level since you would be making money with it. 0% looks too much of trying to bait. Why would you let everyone exploit the planets for free?



^^^ This.


You see without gaining something from the exchange, how can I trust you?

Let me turn that around. For me to trust you, I need to have a basis. Most people do NOT do acts of altruism, but rather act in a way to benefit themselves in some way.

With a 0% tax rate on the POCO's you are taking out the benefit to yourself via ISKies, and thus the question becomes, "How do you benefit?"
The most likely answer to that is "Ganks!" which means I cannot trust you.

Now if you said, "I am setting these up with a 1% rate, enjoy!" or whatever I can clearly see how you benefit from my using those planets.
VB Sarge
Revenue Retrievers
#8 - 2011-12-12 17:27:45 UTC
The simple progression is, someone sees a lot of people utilizing a planet with 0% tax, blows up the POCO, replaces it with their own, sets the tax to something like 10%, and makes money...
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#9 - 2011-12-12 18:30:34 UTC
VB Sarge wrote:
The simple progression is, someone sees a lot of people utilizing a planet with 0% tax, blows up the POCO, replaces it with their own, sets the tax to something like 10%, and makes money...

This.

The profits of POCOs depend a lot more on the number of people using them than how good is the planet. Makes for some interesting mechanics.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-12-12 19:02:58 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Alisarina wrote:
Yes, everyone likes a big boom lol


Just because you're giving me 0 tax now, doesn't mean you will tomorrow. If I have the power to, I will go ahead and Boom boom your POCO to make sure I get 0 tax tomorrow.


On the other hand, if you have the power to, why not wait until there is no 0% tax and blow it up IF he raises the taxes. It would be irrational to blow up a POCO and then spend 100m+ on your own POCO just so that you can... have the same thing as you had before?

Unless of course you LIKE shooting static structures, in which case more power to you. But I doubt you actually enjoy sitting in the same spot shooting at a structure.
Mitchel Rei
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-12-13 01:14:12 UTC
I'm hoping that players will eventually risk lowsec in order to get the low tariff rates being offered there. So far this does not seem to be the case. I've got some nice planets at low tax rates that are basically empty. I wish I had a nice plasma planet to see what a popular spot would bring in. The real ROI is tariff savings for my own production lines. However, I'm not sure I will recoupe my investment before someone gets serious and pops it for lolz. Advertising like I have is seeming only to bring in undesirable attention, not any increased traffic from customers.

My experiment continues...
Alisarina
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2011-12-13 01:37:27 UTC
After soem more tho8ught, setting up the POCOs with 2% tax would be better at setting people at ease for tax hikes a little better than no tax. I will look into actually doing this in the next few weeks after the PI markets have stabilized.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#13 - 2011-12-13 03:19:30 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Alisarina wrote:
Yes, everyone likes a big boom lol


Just because you're giving me 0 tax now, doesn't mean you will tomorrow. If I have the power to, I will go ahead and Boom boom your POCO to make sure I get 0 tax tomorrow.


On the other hand, if you have the power to, why not wait until there is no 0% tax and blow it up IF he raises the taxes. It would be irrational to blow up a POCO and then spend 100m+ on your own POCO just so that you can... have the same thing as you had before?

Unless of course you LIKE shooting static structures, in which case more power to you. But I doubt you actually enjoy sitting in the same spot shooting at a structure.



Because of this point, which I had forgotten:

VB Sarge wrote:
The simple progression is, someone sees a lot of people utilizing a planet with 0% tax, blows up the POCO, replaces it with their own, sets the tax to something like 10%, and makes money...


Though I suspect that a 4-5% tax will be a more reasonable equilibrium than 10%.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#14 - 2011-12-13 10:13:26 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
VB Sarge wrote:
The simple progression is, someone sees a lot of people utilizing a planet with 0% tax, blows up the POCO, replaces it with their own, sets the tax to something like 10%, and makes money...


Though I suspect that a 4-5% tax will be a more reasonable equilibrium than 10%.

I don't know. The average seems to be around 300k/person/planet/day at near 10% tax. A well used planet has 4-5 colonies, so you are looking at a 3 month ROI. Halving the tax would make them financially pointless. Maybe plasma planets with lots of colonies are different, but they are not the most common case.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Blastfizzle
The Chosen 0nes
#15 - 2011-12-13 14:30:30 UTC
Should I leave the safety of 0.0 space and move to low-sec, I would love to see someone like you.
No tax for me? Well I could manage that one by myself.
But: no invesment? No risk of losing that investment? Not having to worry?

I could always shoot that office and replace it, but: why would I pay for something I can have for free?
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-12-13 20:17:40 UTC
ROI for most "good" planets is probably going to be 2-3 months. However, if you are lucky enough to have several factory colony which are regularly used, you could probably get a ROI in as little as 1 month, even with a 5% tax.

Of course the main benefit to a POCO is the 0% tax for yourself, so if you use your own POCO regularly, you will see a ROI faster depending upon how you use it.

Mind you, a higher tax is not necessarily going to mean a higher income. With a tax close to 10% you will scare away your factory colonies, leaving yourself with only mining colonies. The thing is if you are charging 10% tax, why should factory colonies use your POCO when they can use a CONCORD POCO from the safety of high sec?

IMO, the real potential for POCO income comes from factory colonies. The difficulty, of course, is getting them to risk their haulers in low sec for a lower tax rate.