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New Slowcats after Capital Changes

First post
Author
Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2014-10-03 23:28:42 UTC
I love the changes, but they have some holes , let put some ideas how we can abuse it now
For example this archon.
It warps almost as fast as talwar - it will travel by gates faster than a battleship.
Can refit on other ship in fleet.
So again capital EHP + capital repair + immunity to cyno jammers + ability to jump out from system if something is going wrong.


[Archon, New Slowcat]
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II

Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I
Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I
Capital Remote Armor Repairer I
Capital Remote Armor Repairer I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

Einherji x10

This is simple example, as you can fit more tank/utility when you put proper implants.
Implants that will be cheaper than those rigs.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#2 - 2014-10-03 23:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Mabata
You did forget it aligns at the relative speed of a pregnant bathtub and has the signature radius of new york, not quite a talwar yet but your getting there, verrrry slowly your getting there. And no its not immune to jumping if the **** hits the fan someone in a frig is going to tackle it and your going to have to lock it until next christmas before you can sick your drones on it

Not to mention the cost of capital T2 rigs, your out of your mind if you put those on an archon over trimarks or hardeners

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#3 - 2014-10-04 01:08:17 UTC
I have to agree that trimarks add too much tank to put hyperspats in those slots.

That being said, I could see blobs fitting the low slot hyperspats until they get to/near the fight, where they can refit off themselves for some actual tank.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2014-10-04 03:09:26 UTC
Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter).
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#5 - 2014-10-04 05:04:30 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter).


It will be Thanatoses and Sentry Drones, more than likely, until CCP wises up, gets the point and prohibits carriers from using anything smaller than a Fighter.
Anthar Thebess
#6 - 2014-10-04 06:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Actually bloobs are already planing to use this kind ships.
They are harder than battleship doctrine , but you cannot bomb this , fighters can eat almost every thing.
Align time - remember that you can use mwd trick.
Those modules are to big to be refit.

Someone is camping 1j ahead?
Send cyno ship and use your jump drive.

Logistics? Each ship in the fleet is a logistics.

We are talking about doctrine that cannot be again stopped by any subcapital doctrine.
Yes until they refit to tank ( only DDA II in low ) they are less resistant to alpha shoots, but in case of dps , those are still slowcats using capital reps.

Of course you have in those carriers replacement for lost tackling ships.

Simple fix for any slowcat.
( and could be possible now )
Change Remote Capitall assistance modules Armor/hull/energy/shield.
Without triage they assist like Large modules , to compensate this add additional bonus to triage module - that compensate this.

This way slowcats will loose something that make them so OP - heavy remote repairs without needing of triage.
Athryn Bellee
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-10-04 06:34:01 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter).



[Archon, Travelcat]

Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I
Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I
Capital Remote Armor Repairer I
Capital Remote Armor Repairer I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II


Einherji x10

Each Archon webs another two other Archons. I'm not familiar enough with webbing mechanics to know the specifics for how this would work, but I imaging two webs would speed up the align considerably.
Anthar Thebess
#8 - 2014-10-04 06:46:17 UTC
Athryn Bellee wrote:
Rroff wrote:
Align time can be worked around but while I can see the rise of slowcat type carrier roams after this jump range thing I doubt it will be archons or einherji (which are a terrible choice of fighter).



[Archon, Travelcat]

Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I
Capital Remote Capacitor Transmitter I
Capital Remote Armor Repairer I
Capital Remote Armor Repairer I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II


Einherji x10

Each Archon webs another two other Archons. I'm not familiar enough with webbing mechanics to know the specifics for how this would work, but I imaging two webs would speed up the align considerably.


Yes we are talking about the tactics , fighters will be probably different on each carrier to do omni damage.
Those are carriers.

They will carry all possible modules on them to refit .
Those drone mods in med where only to point abuse of the fighters - as thanks to this mods they will travel at speed 5121 m/s

So they will able to chew all small targets.
Dictors / hac / battleships ... even some ceptors will be to slow to run from this ships.

You can easily do the same for dreadnoughts.
But for them you have to Siege to do proper damage.

Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-10-04 07:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
is it a bad sign that you dont even need tank mods to put up a decent tank?

also i am dissapointed that the niddy is still left out even though it superior in agility, speed, and sexiness.
Anthar Thebess
#10 - 2014-10-04 10:54:58 UTC
Well you replace the dda with tank mods if needed.



Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2014-10-04 11:03:58 UTC
A nidhoggur would do it better I believe
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#12 - 2014-10-04 12:44:09 UTC
....which again make the Chimera the worst ever carrier in EVE..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Anthar Thebess
#13 - 2014-10-04 13:08:04 UTC
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
A nidhoggur would do it better I believe

Dont remember if niddy have energy transport range bonus . This is mandartory for slowcat fleet to regain cap.
Remember that in massive fleet EHP is more important than dps.
Also people have those ships and skills for them.
Even if some other carrier is better ,it just will take time to train a new one , and isk for skills .... For 20%more dps?
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2014-10-06 08:21:23 UTC
This thread has been moved to Ships & Modules.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#15 - 2014-10-06 10:29:10 UTC
Nidhoggurs will be the way2go, accompanied by Chimeras.

It's kinda simple - Lowslots for dps and agility, midslots for tank.
Combined with the Rep-Bonus-Amount of the Nids and the massive resistance-profile of the Chimeras, you're looking at a beastly setup.

Throw in a few Lokis and Golems for Webs and Paints.
Reships en masse are traveling with you inside the Carrier's Maintenance Bays.

Pretty much unstoppable in LowSec, and with good Loki Numbers, even aligning relatively fast.

With refits available you can also easily alternate between Warpspeed, Damage and Agility, depending on wether you web people into warp or not.
The possibilities are endless.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#16 - 2014-10-06 11:17:33 UTC
I like your thinking about this OP, but there's a few issues to consider:

1. I'm wagering you haven't actually checked the markets for Prototype Hyperspatial Accelerator modules or Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II rigs. Exorbitant price aside, there are generally so few of them on the market to be had at any given time that you wouldn't even be able to equip a single fleet. The rigs could probably be invented/built by the fleet's operators, but the Accelerator modules are limited by BPC drops so you can't really increase their availability. This means using lower tier modules and slowing down your warp speed considerably.

2. As for align times, webs will work just like they do for freighters, but be careful trying this in losec unless your entire fleet is in the same corp. A bunch of suspect-flagged carriers roaming gate to gate in losec would attract the attention of, well, pretty much everyone.

3. Your slowcats will have only base recharge and no resist mods aside from a DCU. Given the nature of gate travel, it wouldn't necessarily be that hard to tackle a stray carrier on a gate (didn't warp all the way there and had to slowboat half a km or so after the rest of the fleet jumped), and stray carriers with your build would die horribly quickly.


I think you're on the right bath, but I also think you're dedicating too much in fitting to just warp speed. I'd say maybe 2-3 warp speed mods, then use the slots you opened up for cap, resists, and agility.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Lugh Crow-Slave
#17 - 2014-10-06 11:57:51 UTC
not sure how this changes anything. rather then a fleet of carriers sitting 13ly away as a single cyno ship scouts out to drop them on you they now have to go gate to gate so you can see them coming.

so the change hasn't made them stronger all its done is make them easier to see.


I have see a lot of post that talk about how carriers can avoid gate camps ect but this is something they have always been able to do. The point of the change was not to make capitals more vulnerable but to make them slower to move around.
Anthar Thebess
#18 - 2014-10-06 12:04:56 UTC
Well one of the issues with power projections where and still are NCPL slowcats or CFC boots.
I am just pointing that they will be still doing very well after this change .
Cyno jamers will no longer work.

CCP should also limit the concept of slowcat / boot fleet.

Modules / rigs?
Those where just examples.
You can get the same using mix of implants/ t1 Rigs and modules.
You will do it cheaper - using this setup i boosted warp speed almost to level of a destroyer.
Probably those ships don't have to warp so fast to be still faster than battleships.

Solving the issue that sits in slowcat fleet is very simple.
Reduce the amount of repairs you can get from remote assistance modules , while boosting amount that you get while in triage.

Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#19 - 2014-10-06 12:05:03 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not sure how this changes anything. rather then a fleet of carriers sitting 13ly away as a single cyno ship scouts out to drop them on you they now have to go gate to gate so you can see them coming.

so the change hasn't made them stronger all its done is make them easier to see.


I have see a lot of post that talk about how carriers can avoid gate camps ect but this is something they have always been able to do. The point of the change was not to make capitals more vulnerable but to make them slower to move around.




This doesn't really make them slower to move around, only if you aim for big distances.
What this patch however DOES change is that you can now roam with carriers. You can bring them anywhere. Of course, you could have brought them anywhere already, but you would have needed a cyno in place - a shiney beacon that tells everyone in system that 'something' is coming in.
You can now move your carriers without everyone knowing it by looking at the overview.

You'd be surprised by how many things slip through intel channels.

Anthar Thebess
#20 - 2014-10-06 12:11:19 UTC
Thats the point.
Carriers need to have limit of their remote assistance abilities without the triage applied.
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