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Null proposals - another kick in the stomach

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Lady Lys
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-10-04 12:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Lys
After years of inaction on nullsec problems, and massive alliances wiping out small clans who actually occupied and played in nullsec, finally the devs are looking to take action.

And first thing? Jump fatigue, which will KILL indie industrial corps that jump supplies in and out to null and NPC null.

S E R I O U S L Y ?

These changes will be brilliant for mega alliances. Now you can catch an archon ratter as it uses gates! But it won't stop you hot dropping huge fleets to obliterate whatever you want, whenever you want. Nothing in the list will stop them doing anything they do now, they will simply adapt and expand even more.

I fly logistics for a small corp in null. Guess what, the fatigue stuff is shaping up to simply make running casual logistics simply idiotically annoying. I can jump my Ark then Archon as many times as I need currently, but soon ... I can't do that, so guess what, when we can't get things to use in Null we're just going to play more in Highsec. As nearly everyone in the game does, including nullsec corp players who get so bored they go to on noob PC Safari in highsec.

All this on top of having literally years of research wiped out overnight in a patch that honestly I still don't get why we needed it. Simplify sure, dumb down to 1 to 10? No. In hindsight, I probably didn't need ME 1000 anyway. But hey it helped sell copies.



I'm just going to say it plain. I see this game dying to Star Citizen, and I see the Devs scrambling to make changes to try to avert that. The price of PLEX already seems to suggest people are putting their money somewhere else that isn't CCP.


So ya. I like the idea of changing null, but currently all I see are things that are going to make the rich richer and the people who are leaving simply leave sooner. I love this game, and don't want to see it fail. But setting up small corps to be massacred in nullsec is not going to help save anything. My suggestion nearly 2 years ago was to have more NPC Empire incursions into Null, and if unopposed add some more green to the map. After all, most players don't play in null, why not recycle the gamespace. All this stuff isn't going to make small corps any less likely to be obliterated.

As the saying goes, nullsec is where corps go to die. And nothing in the current proposals changes that: corps who go to null will inevitably be zerged, camped and griefed out of existence, and 30 to 60% of their players will quit EVE. And why would new players start EVE now? There is a cheaper game that isn't a monthly sub, so CCP have a serious problem ahead that they need to do far, far more to address. Sad
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-10-04 13:15:39 UTC
So many tears....what to address first.

Shall you leak us the mails you have where all of N3, cfc, russians, etc..... are confirming they are leaving eve. I forget the exact breakdown of populations but this is what you'd need to have 50 % ish of eve to leave. IIRC empire is more than 50% and 0.0, low and wh fight for the remaining 40-50% pie slice left.


If it not all of these....you are not getting your mass defections to get 40-60% lost subs.


Death by star citizen. You must one of those who sees it as the eve killer. I am among those whose is waiting for the devs to have a conscience and go, yeah...we have been blowing your money on hookers and blow and feel bad about stringing you along. Its already heavily p2w with backer prizes for more money....can't wait to see what they do after release when they need more money. If they ever release....
Xander Det89
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2014-10-04 14:00:46 UTC
It is a definite nerf to those who rely on carriers for logistics... but then they aren't actually industrial ships. Guess you'll have to get a JF now.

Quote:
Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This means that, for all the math we’re doing on this feature, whenever we use the range jumped as a variable we first multiply it by 0.1. We will still likely want to revisit the logistical power of these ships in future, but for now we want to bring them into the new system without nerfing them too hard.
Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2014-10-04 15:30:28 UTC
Since you feel so strongly about it, why wait for the rush. Contract me your stuff, transfer me your isk, biomass and unsub today. Have fun over with the vaporware. Meanwhile, I'll be trying to carve out my own little slice of nullsec, so your funds will come in handy.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-10-04 15:35:35 UTC
Industry groups dont jump **** into/out of null, those are merchants/haulers.

and indy group builds things, and frankly, this change will make them EVEN MORE IMPORTANT to keep LOCALLY, because of the sheer PITA of getting supplies into/out of null.

This will HELP the nullsec industrialist who works for his ALLIANCE, it only hurts the jita-whoring useless parasite
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-10-04 16:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Industry groups dont jump **** into/out of null, those are merchants/haulers.

and indy group builds things, and frankly, this change will make them EVEN MORE IMPORTANT to keep LOCALLY, because of the sheer PITA of getting supplies into/out of null.

This will HELP the nullsec industrialist who works for his ALLIANCE, it only hurts the jita-whoring useless parasite



This my take on it. Most of the moon goo is there already. Just may need to ship in the mats from moons and such not in the region. Or its in the region and gasp....they may have to mine the crap moons for some odd and ends vice only the "good" ones if its cost effective over newer supply chaining after this change.

I see it as a good shift. Unless changed, my experience in 0.0 has been clogged manufacturing slots for items that go to anywhere else but local markets Was in one home where we put up an amarr egg. Reason was better production to keep corp in stock. Punchline though was our corps station market sucked ass. I flew 4-5 jumps to next corps station with a markedly better stocked market. In a damn minmatar station no less, not bonused for production as many know. Not sure where our peeps were selling their crap made. Sure as hell wasn't in our hood though.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2014-10-04 19:15:42 UTC
are you upset that you may have to change how you do things, rather than be able to ignore the patch and continue business as usual?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#8 - 2014-10-04 20:05:25 UTC
I have always wanted an Ark, OP. Contract the Ark to me - in Jita, please - and give the rest of your stuff to Iain Cariaba.

Nobody knows what the exact outcome of this change will be, but we do know that humans are lazy, comfort-seeking sods who will avoid inconveniencing themselves - and long Jump Fatigue timers - as much as possible. Expect to see capitals generally staying closer to home from Phoebe on out.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#9 - 2014-10-04 20:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
Lady Lys - Maybe make the Jump Fatigue based upon the size of the corporation. The more members in a corporation increases the Jump Fatigue by 5% per for every 100.

If you are in an alliance then the jump fatigue would be 5% x each corporation that is in the alliance. For example if the alliance has ten corporations in the alliance then each corporation would have a 50% Jump Fatigue factor.

The Fatigue Factor could be alleviated though by having to place Jump Depots in a system that would reduce the Jump Fatigue by a certain percentage and what type of Jump Depot is used.
Iain Cariaba
#10 - 2014-10-04 22:05:20 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
Lady Lys - Maybe make the Jump Fatigue based upon the size of the corporation. The more members in a corporation increases the Jump Fatigue by 5% per for every 100.

If you are in an alliance then the jump fatigue would be 5% x each corporation that is in the alliance. For example if the alliance has ten corporations in the alliance then each corporation would have a 50% Jump Fatigue factor.

The Fatigue Factor could be alleviated though by having to place Jump Depots in a system that would reduce the Jump Fatigue by a certain percentage and what type of Jump Depot is used.

Says the guy permanently in npc corps.

Considering I figured 4 ways to bypass this idea of yours before I even finished reading it, I'm gonna have to say no.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#11 - 2014-10-04 22:48:03 UTC
OP and Dryson, put the magic crystal ball down and step away from the fedo.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-10-05 00:03:51 UTC
Cry moar.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2014-10-05 12:28:19 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
So many tears....what to address first.

Shall you leak us the mails you have where all of N3, cfc, russians, etc..... are confirming they are leaving eve. I forget the exact breakdown of populations but this is what you'd need to have 50 % ish of eve to leave. IIRC empire is more than 50% and 0.0, low and wh fight for the remaining 40-50% pie slice left.


If it not all of these....you are not getting your mass defections to get 40-60% lost subs.


Death by star citizen. You must one of those who sees it as the eve killer. I am among those whose is waiting for the devs to have a conscience and go, yeah...we have been blowing your money on hookers and blow and feel bad about stringing you along. Its already heavily p2w with backer prizes for more money....can't wait to see what they do after release when they need more money. If they ever release....


With the amount of money they are getting now i think release would be a bad business move

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2014-10-05 12:29:48 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
Lady Lys - Maybe make the Jump Fatigue based upon the size of the corporation. The more members in a corporation increases the Jump Fatigue by 5% per for every 100.

If you are in an alliance then the jump fatigue would be 5% x each corporation that is in the alliance. For example if the alliance has ten corporations in the alliance then each corporation would have a 50% Jump Fatigue factor.

The Fatigue Factor could be alleviated though by having to place Jump Depots in a system that would reduce the Jump Fatigue by a certain percentage and what type of Jump Depot is used.


well since most of our JF pilots are alts (not flying one through HS with this many decs) this is useless

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#15 - 2014-10-06 08:19:30 UTC
As this is neither a proposal for a new feature or a new idea, this thread gets a lock.

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