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The Null Deal: A Statement from Sovereign Nullsec

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Author
Plukovnik
Dark Necesstity
#781 - 2014-10-03 17:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Plukovnik
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.


WRONG: High concentration of players in systems is bad for roaming. I killed hundreds of Ishtars in Deklein in past five months. Even Orcas, Tengus, Vidnicators... and believe me, the more people in system, the lower chance for a good kill, because defence is so easy when you have 30+ buddies on local. Some of worst systém to kill a ratter is JU-UWQ, where is permanently 40+ guys, often 20 or more farming at the same time. There are people in Deklein who live in one system for months and never feel the need to go to another systwm because anomalies would be occupied. If enemy comes, all they need to do is dock and reship. No effort, no coordination. Just dock,reship, warp to gate - piece of cake.

CCP should change the anomaly spawning so that no more than 6 good anoms are in system at the same time. Also, Forsaken Hubs should be bad anoms again, Havens and Sanctums should be the most sought anoms. The yield per anomaly could even be higher - just not for 20 dudes in one systém at the same time, just for the 6 who were lucky to be there first. Others would have to go looking elsewhere.

Decreasing number of anoms per system would force people spread across universe looking for unoccupied anomalies, there would be less empty system and roaming would be funnier. Also people who would want to join home defence fleet would have to travel to staging system.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#782 - 2014-10-03 17:58:47 UTC
Andski wrote:
there are actual consequences for violating it and even if CCP doesn't pursue legal action, you really wouldn't want a potential employer to google your name and see "NDA breach" in the top results

fry cooks aren't told what's in the big mac sauce so some people could be excused for thinking the above isn't a big deal
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#783 - 2014-10-03 18:31:58 UTC
NPC space in every region? No thanks. I like the idea of different regions with different advantages and disadvantages. We don't need to make all of nullsec rapidly accessible to non-sov null just like we don't need all of null to have tons of truesec systems.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#784 - 2014-10-03 18:41:53 UTC
Plukovnik wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.


WRONG: High concentration of players in systems is bad for roaming. I killed hundreds of Ishtars in Deklein in past five months. Even Orcas, Tengus, Vidnicators... and believe me, the more people in system, the lower chance for a good kill, because defence is so easy when you have 30+ buddies on local. Some of worst systém to kill a ratter is JU-UWQ, where is permanently 40+ guys, often 20 or more farming at the same time. There are people in Deklein who live in one system for months and never feel the need to go to another systwm because anomalies would be occupied. If enemy comes, all they need to do is dock and reship. No effort, no coordination. Just dock,reship, warp to gate - piece of cake.

CCP should change the anomaly spawning so that no more than 6 good anoms are in system at the same time. Also, Forsaken Hubs should be bad anoms again, Havens and Sanctums should be the most sought anoms. The yield per anomaly could even be higher - just not for 20 dudes in one systém at the same time, just for the 6 who were lucky to be there first. Others would have to go looking elsewhere.

Decreasing number of anoms per system would force people spread across universe looking for unoccupied anomalies, there would be less empty system and roaming would be funnier. Also people who would want to join home defence fleet would have to travel to staging system.


And would force empire to require hundreds to thousands of systems.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#785 - 2014-10-03 20:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
baltec1 wrote:
And would force empire to require hundreds to thousands of systems.
Is that a bad thing? Lower density of farmers over larger area leads to more targets, err, "fights". Again, there seems to be a "Pay us or we'll hold 0.0 hostage" type of vibe going on here.

The reality is that null sec entities are going to hold as much turf as they can - whether or not the specific income of each system is ridiculously high or low. The specific income only sets the rental rate on the areas they choose not to farm for themselves.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#786 - 2014-10-03 21:03:21 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Roll I don't know who's dumber, Gobbo or his fans.

We all knew power projection nerfs were coming, genius. The pretty much stated it outright at fanfest. Gevlon is acting smug because he "predicted" common knowledge, connected the dots wrong so he could accuse goons of whatever tinfoil hat theory he has this time, then failed to read the part of the dev blog that states that sov will likely be changed in the exact way called for by null leadership.
It's pretty hilarious that you expect people to think the Goon elected CSM representatives don't leak inside information to their boss. Pure comedy.
No, it's pretty hilarious that you didn't see power projection nerfs coming yourself, since during fanfest it was made pretty clear and since then it's been a pretty big topic. You want to think that because goons choice for CSM got though the vote, that a bunch of people - who are not all goons - would be willing to breach a real life legally binding document to tell us something that we already know and that will be outright explained prior to deployment for feedback.

The fact that you believe tinfoil hat theories doesn't lend them any more credibility.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#787 - 2014-10-03 21:31:28 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Is that a bad thing?


That's exactly what we have now. So yea, its a very bad thing because that is what everyone wants to not happen.
X Gallentius wrote:

The reality is that null sec entities are going to hold as much turf as they can - whether or not the specific income of each system is ridiculously high or low. The specific income only sets the rental rate on the areas they choose not to farm for themselves.


We have something like 30k pilots in the CFC, with only 10% ratting at a time we would need 3000 systems under your plan to house them all. That leaves just 524 systems in null for everyone else out here.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#788 - 2014-10-03 21:49:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Is that a bad thing?


That's exactly what we have now. So yea, its a very bad thing because that is what everyone wants to not happen.
X Gallentius wrote:

The reality is that null sec entities are going to hold as much turf as they can - whether or not the specific income of each system is ridiculously high or low. The specific income only sets the rental rate on the areas they choose not to farm for themselves.


We have something like 30k pilots in the CFC, with only 10% ratting at a time we would need 3000 systems under your plan to house them all. That leaves just 524 systems in null for everyone else out here.

Not to mention, with proposed changes, renter empires will be difficult to defend, might have to start havign small regional fleets bolstered with renter "militias" at a mandatory or kicked the **** out level for quick reaction fleets.


Also, unrelated note, I hope CCP doesnt do anythign to alleviate the goon's concern with "getting new members out to our space on day 1", memebers shoudl bo considered assets/resources, and should eb forced to sit on their ass until the enxt weekly freighter convoy back into null to get out there.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#789 - 2014-10-03 21:54:56 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

Also, unrelated note, I hope CCP doesnt do anythign to alleviate the goon's concern with "getting new members out to our space on day 1", memebers shoudl bo considered assets/resources, and should eb forced to sit on their ass until the enxt weekly freighter convoy back into null to get out there.


They alted their plan to get new corp members out to where the corp is. Under 30 days old you can suicide pod jump to your new corp. Over 30 days old you get to do that once a year.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#790 - 2014-10-03 21:57:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Is that a bad thing?


That's exactly what we have now. So yea, its a very bad thing because that is what everyone wants to not happen.
X Gallentius wrote:

The reality is that null sec entities are going to hold as much turf as they can - whether or not the specific income of each system is ridiculously high or low. The specific income only sets the rental rate on the areas they choose not to farm for themselves.


We have something like 30k pilots in the CFC, with only 10% ratting at a time we would need 3000 systems under your plan to house them all. That leaves just 524 systems in null for everyone else out here.

You guys are going to hold all of the systems anyways. We both agree on that.

The only question is how much isk you're going to generate from renters while doing so, and at what threshold you're going to have to undock to defend your space (get pew).


baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#791 - 2014-10-03 21:59:21 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Is that a bad thing?


That's exactly what we have now. So yea, its a very bad thing because that is what everyone wants to not happen.
X Gallentius wrote:

The reality is that null sec entities are going to hold as much turf as they can - whether or not the specific income of each system is ridiculously high or low. The specific income only sets the rental rate on the areas they choose not to farm for themselves.


We have something like 30k pilots in the CFC, with only 10% ratting at a time we would need 3000 systems under your plan to house them all. That leaves just 524 systems in null for everyone else out here.

You guys are going to hold all of the systems anyways. We both agree on that.

The only question is how much isk you're going to generate from renters while doing so, and at what threshold you're going to have to undock to defend your space (get pew).




Under your plan it would be zero. All of that space would be needed for us alone and it most likely would not be enough.
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#792 - 2014-10-03 22:18:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Given that it would be very easy for CCP to figure this out and dump them out of the CSM staining their RL name forever with an NDA violation, yes, its rather easy to see why they don't tell alliances anything.


... because moving from "possible but unlikely" to "absurd" helps your argument :)
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#793 - 2014-10-03 22:40:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Under your plan it would be zero. All of that space would be needed for us alone and it most likely would not be enough.
Again, you are posting some sort of extortion threat to CCP. "Give us rich farms in null sec or we won't let anybody else use get in."



baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#794 - 2014-10-04 06:37:37 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Under your plan it would be zero. All of that space would be needed for us alone and it most likely would not be enough.
Again, you are posting some sort of extortion threat to CCP. "Give us rich farms in null sec or we won't let anybody else use get in."





No I am telling you what would have to happen. You cannot shrink our empire and not deal with over population and the fact that the space simply cannot support even a fraction of our members.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#795 - 2014-10-04 07:01:45 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Andski wrote:
there are actual consequences for violating it and even if CCP doesn't pursue legal action, you really wouldn't want a potential employer to google your name and see "NDA breach" in the top results

fry cooks aren't told what's in the big mac sauce so some people could be excused for thinking the above isn't a big deal

I hear McDonalds in iceland is adding tears to theirs.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#796 - 2014-10-04 07:40:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Under your plan it would be zero. All of that space would be needed for us alone and it most likely would not be enough.
Again, you are posting some sort of extortion threat to CCP. "Give us rich farms in null sec or we won't let anybody else use get in."





No I am telling you what would have to happen. You cannot shrink our empire and not deal with over population and the fact that the space simply cannot support even a fraction of our members.

And yet you have so much space.... hmmm... Maybe there isn't a link between being able to support your base and the number of systems you'll own.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#797 - 2014-10-04 08:04:02 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

And yet you have so much space.... hmmm... Maybe there isn't a link between being able to support your base and the number of systems you'll own.


If you had paid any attention over the last week you would know that the vast bulk of systems in sov null are so crappy that you can earn more isk running level 3 missions in high sec. It still doesn't change the fact that even if the systems were worth ratting in they could still only host at the very most 10 people. If you want to shrink the CFC down to just being able to hold Deklein then you are going to have to deal with the fact that you are going to have 30,000 trying to live in just 80-90 systems.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#798 - 2014-10-04 08:34:23 UTC
I believe someone's missing a view here: CFC has a huge memberlist, so no matter what system you implement, the space they'll occupy will always be large, simply due to the amount of manpower they can call on at any time.

The jumprange change will undoubtedly have effects on CFC, perhaps they'll relinquish some bad fringe systems to bold adventurous sov entities, in order to establish a better border that they can defend much better (which might also include taking systems to get a nice, defendable border going)
But as long as CFC commands such a huge pool of members, they're not in any danger of falling apart or loosing large parts of space, no matter the system you introduce.

What does matter tho, is making a system where it's viable for smaller entities to exist in null, to offer a more constant pressure to the large entites, keeping them on their toes. NPC nullsec offers this. The changes to the jumpranges can also help, as the big coalitions can't just blindly jump hundreds of capitals on a small threat. They now got to run a cost/effective analysis before doing so, no more dumping 100 caps when 10 would do.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#799 - 2014-10-04 10:34:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Under your plan it would be zero. All of that space would be needed for us alone and it most likely would not be enough.
Again, you are posting some sort of extortion threat to CCP. "Give us rich farms in null sec or we won't let anybody else use get in."





No I am telling you what would have to happen. You cannot shrink our empire and not deal with over population and the fact that the space simply cannot support even a fraction of our members.


Maybe a simplistic question, but given the history of CFC itself, why would anyone assume that it is somehow immune to change?

I would note that I fly down through Goon space a lot, even right through the heart of Fountain from time to time, and 90% of those systems are empty, as in not a single pilot in local, 90% of the time. Your claim seems to have little factual basis based on simple observation.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#800 - 2014-10-04 10:41:20 UTC
Deck Cadelanne wrote:


Maybe a simplistic question, but given the history of CFC itself, why would anyone assume that it is somehow immune to change?

I would note that I fly down through Goon space a lot, even right through the heart of Fountain from time to time, and 90% of those systems are empty, as in not a single pilot in local, 90% of the time. Your claim seems to have little factual basis based on simple observation.


The power projection nerf wont have much impact due to the way we operate. We have a vast subcap fleet which will not be badly impacted by this and it is deployed in sigs across our space so we can deploy a fleet or three to any attempt upon our sov/assets rather quickly.