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QotD: How do you measure profitability of highsec ganking?

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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#141 - 2014-10-03 22:01:21 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
I do not get anything out of it personally.
The answer to your question lies in March 2012, in Hek.
It was a means to an end, which I managed to achieve. (I apologise if that's not the proper saying)


If you noticed ... or, actually, even CARED to notice ...
... I do not share the attitude or even gameplay of absolutely most other gankers.


So tell me about your vision. Do you support Code?
Solecist Project
#142 - 2014-10-03 22:10:55 UTC
I would prefer if you did not try to lead the conversation, especially in such a twisted way.
That's rather rude and unlike most I do realise that you are doing so.

Nowhere did I imply a "vision" and my post showed no connection to CODE whatsoever,
so your thoughtprocess seems rather weird... but I know it's simply manipulative.


Please try again.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#143 - 2014-10-03 22:30:50 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
No hiding behind excuses.


Having a little bit of creative fun is hiding behind excuses?
Solecist Project
#144 - 2014-10-03 22:34:42 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
No hiding behind excuses.


Having a little bit of creative fun is hiding behind excuses?

Your response to his generalisation is as much of one ...
... and can't really be applied to the everyone either.

There are, absolutely, a lot of people who hide behind excuses.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#145 - 2014-10-03 22:54:39 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
There are, absolutely, a lot of people who hide behind excuses.


That sounds quite possible. Assumptions can be flawed though.

That someone may give an excuse for doing something, where the real motivation differs from what is communicated, does not mean they are hiding. The very word itself is loaded with emotional connotations. Perhaps someone just wants to conceal the truth from you, for some valid reason.

Is that hiding behind an excuse? I'd call that being sneaky.

Personally, I just have fun in a game though Big smile
Solecist Project
#146 - 2014-10-03 23:08:06 UTC
It is actually definitely the case.
EVE ONLINE, by it's very nature,
pushes this possibility into a definite.

Also....

Someone who conceals his true motivation is still hiding it from others...
... and being sneaky about something usually differs in motivation.

Sneakyness most often involves a secret of some sort,
which is not the same as hiding behind excuses ...
... or concealing the true intent of an action or behaviour.


I would say that you are one of those we are talking about.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#147 - 2014-10-03 23:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
I reffered to emotional connotations. Suggesting that someone is hiding behind an excuse gives the impression that they are in some way a coward, scared of the judgements of those around them. Now this might be true of some people, but I think it's a poor choice of words for making a generalisation.

Are they really a coward? Maybe they just like to roleplay, for fun? Perhaps they enjoy killboard statistics? Maybe it's all about the isk?

I mean, I can accept if someone has respect only for unapologetic ganking. That is their prerogative. But to dismiss other justifications as unworthy, and imply that people might be cowardly for what they do is something I find highly amusing!
Solecist Project
#148 - 2014-10-03 23:50:10 UTC
Ah, yes, I see what you are hinting at.

It don't see, though, that hiding the turth necessarily does make one a coward.
In the case of EVE and suicide ganking, it rather makes people assholes.

Roleplaying has the top spot as excuse, btw,
but these people are extremely easy to spot anyway.


And again I need to add that "just so, for fun" does not exist as an honest reason for literally anything.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#149 - 2014-10-04 00:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
Suicide gank, because it's something fun to do, for any number of reasons that the game allows. Do a bit of light-hearted roleplaying if you want. The game will allow that too. It's not immoral to have fun in a game, if you don't cross certain boundaries.

If you don't want to do those things then don't. If you want to put people down for doing those things, then don't be surprised if they show disregard for your putdowns.

Just a fun game Big smile
Solecist Project
#150 - 2014-10-04 00:10:48 UTC
Not really connected to my post.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#151 - 2014-10-04 00:11:33 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Not really connected to my post.


Your post made no sense to me at all. I'm done here btw.
Solecist Project
#152 - 2014-10-04 00:21:05 UTC
Figures. You're more on a personal, "individual" level,
showing also the assumption of the existence of free will.

"Doing something for fun" is no honest reason either.
"Fun" is too relative to work as reason for "Why" someone does something.
"I do it for fun" is a superficial explanation, which does not really tell anything about the intentions
or reasons "Why" something is fun for someone.


I'm off too. Need sleep.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#153 - 2014-10-04 00:32:33 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
"Doing something for fun" is no honest reason either.
This is your brain on not-CODE.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#154 - 2014-10-04 11:48:10 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Meh ... not happy with this new portrait.


It's true, there's something off. :( seems a little on the Neytiri side of things.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Wolf Incaelum
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-10-04 17:58:05 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Profitablitiy.
It doesn't really matter to me.

What matters is to kill them out of the blue ..............


So you would gank empty shuttles just because?

No. I do not do things "just because".
I never have and the universe does not work that way anyway.
There is not a single being in existence that does things "just because".

"Just because" usually either means that someone does not want to bother telling the reason,
does not want to tell the reason or does not know the reason.

Causality......... it's weird, right?


"Out of the blue" means that I engaged "by surprise" or "without them seeing it coming".




So what do you get out of popping an empty shuttle?


Extortion, my good friend. Extortion. Convo the target and say something to the effect of "pay me or die". Now, since it's a shuttle the pilot will likely be willing to take the loss. However, they might have some nice implants that they don't want to lose. If that's the case, negotiations will begin. After negotiations have ended and business is concluded, you kill them anyway. ...Ok, maybe you don't kill them. You never know if you might want to extort them again. Lol.

ANARCHYFOREVAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#156 - 2014-10-06 10:44:27 UTC
I miss the most important part in the OP - the economical aspect as a producer of ships. Ganks become a complete different value then - i dont really calculate the value of destruction needed because i profit from both participants.

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#157 - 2014-10-06 12:36:11 UTC
Dwissi wrote:
I miss the most important part in the OP - the economical aspect as a producer of ships. Ganks become a complete different value then - i dont really calculate the value of destruction needed because i profit from both participants.


Nonsense. What is the increase in demand per ship ganked? Maybe 0.1 ships demanded for each ganked? And what fraction of the market do you control? Calculate your marginal profit per gank and you will realize how absurd that angle is.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#158 - 2014-10-06 12:40:29 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
What is the increase in demand per ship ganked?


For the most part, 1 to 1. They lost one ship, they need one ship. The only variance is that they may buy a different ship or stop the activity that got them ganked, but that's an outlier.


Quote:
And what fraction of the market do you control?


It's not about the entire thing, you pusillanimous imbecile.

It's about what you control *near* the gank area. If I am the only person who sells Procurers, Retrievers and mining lasers in Teonusude, then I benefit directly from every ganked ship, since most people would rather eat a ten percent markup if it's right in system. If I am one of two people, then I benefit on about a 50/50 scale. That is incredibly beneficial.

Quote:

Calculate your marginal profit per gank and you will realize how absurd that angle is.


The people who actually bother to do the math are the ones helping to fund the ganking.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#159 - 2014-10-06 12:52:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
What is the increase in demand per ship ganked?


For the most part, 1 to 1. They lost one ship, they need one ship. The only variance is that they may buy a different ship or stop the activity that got them ganked, but that's an outlier.


Quote:
And what fraction of the market do you control?


It's not about the entire thing, you pusillanimous imbecile.

It's about what you control *near* the gank area. If I am the only person who sells Procurers, Retrievers and mining lasers in Teonusude, then I benefit directly from every ganked ship, since most people would rather eat a ten percent markup if it's right in system. If I am one of two people, then I benefit on about a 50/50 scale. That is incredibly beneficial.

Quote:

Calculate your marginal profit per gank and you will realize how absurd that angle is.


The people who actually bother to do the math are the ones helping to fund the ganking.


You must be kidding me. There is no way there is a 1-1 correlation for ganks and ships purchased. Many victims give up the occupation or leave the game entirely. Many others cannot afford to replace the ship. Local monopolies are of little value when the guy can just go to jita and buy it for cheap. Good luck extracting economic rent based on avoiding a 20 minute Jita. The idea that masses of gank victims are going to go next door to replace their losses at a significant markup is nothing shy of delusional. The people who support ganking are those looking for entertainment and tears. How many of the top CODE shareholders are ship manufacturers of repute?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#160 - 2014-10-06 13:01:13 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

You must be kidding me. There is no way there is a 1-1 correlation for ganks and ships purchased. Many victims give up the occupation or leave the game entirely.


Citation needed.


Quote:

Many others cannot afford to replace the ship.


Ten million is not really asking that much. Even mining pays well enough to replace Retrievers and mining lasers now and then.


Quote:

Local monopolies are of little value when the guy can just go to jita and buy it for cheap. Good luck extracting economic rent based on avoiding a 20 minute Jita. The idea that masses of gank victims are going to go next door to replace their losses at a significant markup is nothing shy of delusional.


My wallet disagrees. Aside from scamming, implants and POS fuel(and my God, the fuel market sucks so much), that's how I make my money.

Quote:

The people who support ganking are those looking for entertainment and tears.


That's why I do it, certainly, and while I'm not alone, you can't paint us all with that brush. The economic incentive to me is secondary to seeing people I dislike get blown up.

Quote:

How many of the top CODE shareholders are ship manufacturers of repute?


Name me a few "ship manufacturers of repute", why not.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.