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Finding Ship Bonuses from Data Dump

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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#1 - 2011-12-12 01:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
I must be missing it but I'm unable to determine through query, the bonuses for a particular ship. For example, if I choose an Atron Frigate, I should be able to find out that I get:

10% bonus to small hybrid turret falloff
5% small hybrid turret damage

per level.

Now the per level isn't a problem, it's just finding the value along with the attribute. I can get the value with the shipBonusGF or shipBonusGF2 value, but how do I know what one maps to the falloff bonus and the damage bonus?

If I go into dmgEffects, I can get more information on the description, but I can't link that data to the dmgTypeAttributes.

What I'm trying to do here is build a query that I can say, get me the ship bonuses for a ship and a particular type of attribute. Example: f("Atron", "small hybrid turret damage") = 5

Any ideas?

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CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2011-12-12 09:08:58 UTC
I just wrote a huge explanation on your question.. and the forums ate it.

At any rate, here's the skinny of it:
You lack the data to do this.
I have it but I couldn't do this (efficiently, in SQL only)

These things are not attributes, but effects with expressions that affect instances of attributes. These expressions have a relationship that is undefinable until you have a specific row of the expression table (actually once you have that row you need to look at the operands to understand the relationship between args, what they are and what the output will be) so you'd have to make procedural code which evaluates its execution according to the output of each step. At this point you shouldn't be doing this in a relational database because you are writing procedural code (Nope, not a fan of CLR active on DBs).

I'll poke around and see if there's a reason for hiding this data from you guys, I cannot remember it at least and it's not like this information isn't available to everybody. However, I do not really know the dogma system well and would have to deferr to Tuxford when it comes to rating the sensitivity of the information there.

Now, Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, and lets see if this posts!

CCP Prism X

Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#3 - 2011-12-12 12:21:44 UTC
Ahh ok. Thanks for the reply!

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TorTorden
Tors shibari party
#4 - 2011-12-12 21:14:05 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:


Now, Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, and lets see if this posts!


So taking a wild guess you aren't exactly in love with this forum-code either ?
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#5 - 2011-12-12 21:32:55 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
I just wrote a huge explanation on your question.. and the forums ate it.

How about fixing it?...
The main problem is HTTPS. Absolutely unnecessary and defeating the main advantages of website browsing - local image cache.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2011-12-13 01:20:32 UTC
Tonto Auri wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:
I just wrote a huge explanation on your question.. and the forums ate it.

How about fixing it?...
The main problem is HTTPS. Absolutely unnecessary and defeating the main advantages of website browsing - local image cache.


HTTPS doesn't touch caching on the endpoints. Just in between.

It does give the advantage that your password can't be sniffed. Sure, that could be stopped with just the login page being behind https, but that doesn't stop your session being hijacked.


The main downside to https is that unless the the image site on https, you can't link to them without security alerts.

The eating of posts suggests it's a session expiry issue. But that's just an educated guess.

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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#7 - 2011-12-13 06:28:23 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
HTTPS doesn't touch caching on the endpoints. Just in between.

Wherever you think it does, the result is the same. Caching is only valid for current session. Even if you come back 5 min later, you'll need to reload all images yet again.

Quote:
It does give the advantage that your password can't be sniffed. Sure, that could be stopped with just the login page being behind https, but that doesn't stop your session being hijacked.

Which means, the session is badly programmed.

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-12-13 19:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Tonto Auri wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
HTTPS doesn't touch caching on the endpoints. Just in between.

Wherever you think it does, the result is the same. Caching is only valid for current session. Even if you come back 5 min later, you'll need to reload all images yet again.

Quote:
It does give the advantage that your password can't be sniffed. Sure, that could be stopped with just the login page being behind https, but that doesn't stop your session being hijacked.

Which means, the session is badly programmed.

No, there are some attacks that can only be stopped by placing the whole site behind HTTPS (either that, or you have to use DIFFERENT session tokens for HTTPS and HTTP). Go read, say, the OWASP guidelines.

To wit, directly from the OWASP Development Guide:
Quote:

If possible, the application should conduct all web traffic using HTTPS. If this is not possible, the application should, at minimum protect sensitive content and pages used to engage in sensitive transactions with HTTPS. If HTTPS is not used to protect the entire web session an additional session identifier should be incorporated that is only transferred over HTTPS. Additional application level checks for HTTPS pages should verify that this session identifier has been provided and matches the normal session being managed by the web or application server.
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
#9 - 2011-12-14 22:40:50 UTC
Discounting man-in-the-middle attack, there's no attacks that can not break proper session handling, effectively making login session (and your point) invalid.
And MIM-kind of attacks are usually exploited on the end-user's machine, which means, even HTTPS could be easily beaten by injecting a simple script into page after fetching, but before rendering..

Two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -- Harlan Ellison
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#10 - 2012-01-04 08:10:24 UTC
Ignoring the interesting tangent on the effects of HTTPS security....

Is there any update if the missing data is likely to be included in future static database dumps? I'm waiting on this myself and would rather wait to be able to do it 'properly' than make educated guesses for each item and module to force it to work.
CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2012-01-04 08:46:00 UTC
Sorry, I probably wasn't clear enough on account of the happenstance which started the tangent:

This data does not exist in a relational form. Yes there is missing data: The effects table. But even with that you would not be any more able to construct this in a relational manner nor could you write a script that pulls up the data and works on it because (as I understand it.. I've been known to misunderstand things) there are references to code parts that you do not have in this effect data. So this is not just a question of including something that already exists in the SDE.

But I agree that this is a rather stupid limitation and I wish I had solutions to offer right now. But I don't. Furthermore, the dogma (our attribute system) system is obvouosly very intergrated into the entire game simulation so changing it is not a trivial thing to do and making a case for changing it so I can provide a bit of extra data with the SDE is rather futile.

That being said, I've asked myself this question about twice every year because this honestly frustrates me. Perhaps when me and Tuxford have free time on our hands we can sit down and solve this once and for all. But clearly I cannot promise anything.. just look at my signature.

CCP Prism X

Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter