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Moving Carriers and Dreads to T2
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Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-08-04 22:03:49 UTC
Harvey James wrote:

- supercarriers made into its own skill and reduce their HP somewhat and also make it a dps basic model


Would make the Revenant an even rarer sight than it already is... Nobody would fly a super carrier that required 2 SC books, considering that their prices would be massive.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#22 - 2014-08-04 22:44:50 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

I don't think there is really a need for a refit service from ships to be honest. If you need to refit in space, use an MDU imo.

Please refit a fleet of 250 from MDU's.
That's the need. However if it was limited to subcaps only I don't think it would be a huge issue.

Caps & Super Caps, supers especially, still need some way to refit in space, but if they had to use an MDU you wouldn't be refitting a fleet of 250 Caps while they are in a blob due to the space requirements for MDU's. But carrying an MDU (or five) wouldn't be a huge issue for most Caps with large cargo bays.

Alternative options would be the Rorqual being made into a Capital Logistics Ship, with the ability to bridge industrial ships, and a Refit service that Caps & Super Caps would use. It would be a significant role change for it, but it would give it a unique place in the meta as well as bringing them along on cap fights so the titans can refit on grid.
Give them some other personal abilities as well, and you actually have the Rorqual being useful & at risk.

Would upset miners a bit, but also means that the mining skill path leads to a ship that is useful in large cap fights, without having to skill any specific DPS capitals. Which is a nice thing.
Mario Putzo
#23 - 2014-08-04 23:34:14 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

I don't think there is really a need for a refit service from ships to be honest. If you need to refit in space, use an MDU imo.

Please refit a fleet of 250 from MDU's.
That's the need. However if it was limited to subcaps only I don't think it would be a huge issue.

Caps & Super Caps, supers especially, still need some way to refit in space, but if they had to use an MDU you wouldn't be refitting a fleet of 250 Caps while they are in a blob due to the space requirements for MDU's. But carrying an MDU (or five) wouldn't be a huge issue for most Caps with large cargo bays.

Alternative options would be the Rorqual being made into a Capital Logistics Ship, with the ability to bridge industrial ships, and a Refit service that Caps & Super Caps would use. It would be a significant role change for it, but it would give it a unique place in the meta as well as bringing them along on cap fights so the titans can refit on grid.
Give them some other personal abilities as well, and you actually have the Rorqual being useful & at risk.

Would upset miners a bit, but also means that the mining skill path leads to a ship that is useful in large cap fights, without having to skill any specific DPS capitals. Which is a nice thing.


But that is just it, a fleet of 250 shouldn't just be able to refit on the fly, it is impractical, it should have some tediousness involved, and should be susceptible to interruption, especially on a field of battle. The fact there are ships in this game that facilitate this is seemingly unnecessary with the advent of the MDU. If you can not refit your whole fleet, that sucks but that is the risk you took undocking your ships and committing to battle.

I don't think making the Rorqual into a "mandatory" fleet ship makes any more sense than making a Titan or Super Carrier mandatory for a fleet. I think that there should be no refitting in space outside of using a POS or an MDU. It is an unnecessary ship bonus with the MDU as an option, and if it is logistically difficult to implement into a 250 man fleet good, you have 250 people coordination should be more difficult.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#24 - 2014-08-06 01:05:30 UTC
Tedium is a bad thing. No matter what the cause.
If MDU's still work for Caps & Supers the Rorqual also wouldn't be 'mandatory'. It would just be a good addition for a cap fleet. But each Rorqual is one person not in a normal cap or super, so less DPS/Reps your fleet is bringing, which creates an interesting trade off, rather than the current where the refit ships are also your reps & DPS.
beatlebutt
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-08-06 14:42:25 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
because of cost? or SP? lowly logisticians find ways to afford jump freighters, and it's one of those ships you only need one of per character... right?

...isn't independent cap ownership already a bad idea?


JF avoid fights because they aren't a combat ship. they go from station to station. I would like to see more T2 caps with comparable cost..but I don't think we kill normal carriers by taking out jump drives and making them use gates.
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-08-07 00:55:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
for sure. they're priced like dumb* T1 hulls, and if they're also prereq'd like one (without jump skills) I think they'd be quite popular as home defense

people won't like the thought of a 6B price tag, but that's part of the point... making the loss sting more.

*dumb in the sense of T1 without special T2 abilities.

I vote T2 dreadnought = juggernaut

Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Harvey James wrote:

- supercarriers made into its own skill and reduce their HP somewhat and also make it a dps basic model


Would make the Revenant an even rarer sight than it already is... Nobody would fly a super carrier that required 2 SC books, considering that their prices would be massive.

man I disagree directly. supers should be a T2. not buffed or nerfed, just what they are currently. the T1 skillbook is nothing next to their cost.

I'm also open to the idea of pirate capitals. and currently have characters that are multiracial skilled in carriers and titans. you say no one would fly them, but the limiting factor right now is the rarity of the hulls, not players with the ISK and SP.......

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Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-10-02 05:14:19 UTC
not bumping to toot my own horn. that would not be modest. I also can't. I would if I could, though. you would too.

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Maruk Ihnati
Wazan Tme Inc.
#28 - 2014-10-02 06:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Maruk Ihnati
First, you should consider changing the name of the topic. T2 capitals is not what this is about and you might scare some support for this idea away.

I definitely agree with you. Split the logistical (moving ships) and combat of capitals so that moving ships won't become a even more tedious task with the current proposed jumping range and fatigue limitations.

CCP Veritas gives us Dojos, so that we can have pvp without the 95% of the time spending on logistics and finding a suitable target to engage, and now CCP gives us a harder time moving ships around.

Yes, power projection needs nerfing but why taking down supplying your alliance with it?
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-10-02 06:56:04 UTC
I think the topic still says what I want it to. I'd also like to preserve the un-edited status of the first post.

I meant Logistics in the sense of 'healer', and the role of material Logistics will still belong to the Jump Freighter. Especially after the jump changes, moving assembled ships via jump drive is a convenience not worth having.

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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-10-02 07:46:47 UTC
Yeah let's put even more money in the pockets of moon holders. Great plan! Straight

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-10-02 08:13:08 UTC
Sup Rek. I don't see how this increases the output rate of moons, but more money more problems? please explain.

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Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-10-02 08:44:55 UTC
I'm assuming T2 carriers/dreads would be manufactured using the same materials as every other T2 ship.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-10-02 09:05:40 UTC
ah, k. man I see a lot of similarities between that thought and LP. It's already being earned, and will be used based on profit. especially now that jump drives are becoming a lot less special, I'm not sure T2 Dreads / Carriers would make moon income suddenly broken.

There's also a vague thought about T3 manufacturing that comes to mind, but it seems a bit obscure to research.

You had me worried for a second, it almost sounded like tinfoil, or moon envy.

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Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#34 - 2014-10-02 10:06:38 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I'm using freighters and jump freighters as a baseline in this suggestion.

Carriers can be split into T2 versions by DPS and Logistics. I also think T1 carriers should lose their jump drives. they're just too cheap for what they do. This goes for dreads as well.

Freighters have a mass and build cost comparable to carriers. similarly, T1 carriers and dreads would need to use gates. bar them from highsec, of course. only their T2 versions would have jump drives, and they would be:

T2 Logistics carrier: essentially the same as the current triage carrier, except it does not have the drone bonuses of...

...T2 DPS carrier: no logistics bonuses, is allowed to use drones while "triaged". ..."triage" gives a local rep and drone bonus instead (the current levels of drone DPS only occurs when the high slot module is activated... perhaps change the name to reflect an increase in tank. too bad bastion is already taken).

T1 carrier and dreads remain unchanged except for losing a jump drive. maybe do something with the number of drones to help server load.

make the T2 cost as much as jump freighters.

also: kaalakiota chimera... core complexion nid... carthum archon HHHNNNGGG


damn i have to use my apples and oranges comparison again Straight

you cant compare a freighter with a carrier (freighter being an apple and the carrier a orange) the carrier is a support combat ship and yes it can move fitted ships which is part of the support task you think it can do too much for its cost go fly them. it is true it is a versatile ship we will see what CCP is goeing to change when its rebalanced till then i think a thread like this is not contributing much (unless you think CCP is going to make this request happen before the rebalance)

but stop compare apples and oranges it doesn't make your case stronger and is stupid to begin with

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#35 - 2014-10-02 10:16:05 UTC
Maruk Ihnati wrote:
First, you should consider changing the name of the topic. T2 capitals is not what this is about and you might scare some support for this idea away.

I definitely agree with you. Split the logistical (moving ships) and combat of capitals so that moving ships won't become a even more tedious task with the current proposed jumping range and fatigue limitations.

CCP Veritas gives us Dojos, so that we can have pvp without the 95% of the time spending on logistics and finding a suitable target to engage, and now CCP gives us a harder time moving ships around.

Yes, power projection needs nerfing but why taking down supplying your alliance with it?


i dont agree and i will explain why the fact that a carrier can move ships is PART of its support task just as logic that it has a fitting service, a carrier without a jumpdrive is like a car without wheels. do you see someone in a carrier moving trough gates in 0.0 or low sec (specially with the warp speed changes)??? it would make them pinatas and it would make the ship worthless except ofcourse for the big powerblocks that can move 100 carriers to a gate and make them jump without any danger.

dont forget that the carrier is pretty much the start of a capital pilot in most cases, and its a important asset for the smaller groups

i do agree that projection needs a nerf, but this is not the way to do it

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-10-02 11:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I multiboxed carriers and dreads. I consider myself lucky to have avoided jump addiction, and retain a neutral view.

I also traded sixteen or so rigged carriers a while back, does that count

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Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#37 - 2014-10-02 13:15:28 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I multiboxed carriers and dreads. I consider myself lucky to have avoided jump addiction, and retain a neutral view.

I also traded sixteen or so rigged carriers a while back, does that count


Such an unbelievable achievement!

~lvl 60 paladin~
Rain6637
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-10-02 13:20:47 UTC
it's over 9000!!!!

was not empty gloating.
Quote:
the carrier is a support combat ship and yes it can move fitted ships which is part of the support task you think it can do too much for its cost go fly them.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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