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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Kalissis
#2501 - 2014-10-02 05:26:50 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
I play eve for the big fights. Now they will be so rare :(


So you like doing nothing while watching a circle saying you "there is 99% TIDI". Thats fun, right?
Big fights will happen, they just wont screw everybodys fun - unless pooping whie in fleet and not missing a single kill, is your kind of fun.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#2502 - 2014-10-02 05:27:53 UTC
Removed some off topics post. I will see to it the thread gets a good proper clean in the morning.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#2503 - 2014-10-02 05:28:59 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
OK, I've been sitting in front of this thread for four and a half hours, I need to go home and feed myself and stuff. I'll try and check back in in an hour or two, but otherwise I'll see you all tomorrow!



Go check reddit. They love the changes over there.

At least you have all the cry babies localized.


Apparently you really don't read reddit
Rarnak Ki
Twilight Hour Industries
Barely-Legal
#2504 - 2014-10-02 05:29:23 UTC
The stated goal of this "fix":

" the aim of significantly increasing minimum travel times between two arbitrary distant points"

Nerfing "force projection" is a good idea that everyone can agree on. While the jump fatigue mechanic achieves this, it has the terrible side effect of simultaneously nerfing multiple jumps over short distances as well. The net result is a total nerf to cyno jumping in general, not just over long distances.

I often need to make a dozen or so jf jumps into low/null just to haul a week or two's worth of materials. This often involves repeated back and forth jumps in a jump freighter, which right now I can do with adequate fuel stocks and on the same cyno. This is essential right now because the cargoholds of jump freighters are ridiculously small compared with what actually needs to be hauled in this game. After this change this process will take me days or even weeks for the same work I can do now in less than an hour. My only solution would be to use more accounts which is perhaps what CCP is going for.

The jump fatigue and reduced jump range makes sense for carriers, dreads, and supers. It makes no sense for jump freighters. Perhaps either the jump fatigue or the jump range reduction but not both. Perhaps even both but then maybe tripling or quadrupling the cargo capacity of jump freighters (and their hp in proportion).

Or even better, figure out how to reduce the impact of jump fatigue while jumping within local areas (within the same region?). That way jumps back and forth between nearby systems don't start adding up to ridiculous amounts of waiting time.

Further food for thought:


  • How many pilots are going to be sitting idle in mid point systems for hours/days waiting to make that final jump? Is this really how we want our pilots spending their time?

  • How are fleets of capitals going to be able to make more than one simultaneous jump when likely everyone will have different jump fatigue times? This doesn't just nerf force projection more than 5 ly, but eliminates it.

  • Is it realistic for a carrier to make 40 gate jumps through null sec? Or even a few? Is it realistic for anyone not in a fleet or an interceptor to make any gate jumps through null?

  • If supers can use gates now they should also be able to dock. Especially so since often they won't be able to cyno jump out now for hours/days.




Takeaways:

  • Jump Fatigue has the unintended consequence of nerfing multiple subsequent nearby jumps which seems an unintended consequence when the goal is to nerf force projection.

  • Jump Freighers getting the double-nerf of jump fatigue and reduced range is going to exponentially increase the amount of time it takes to conduct logistics, even over short distances because the number of loads becomes a factor as much as distance.

  • As pilots are stuck in mid point systems with varying degrees of jump fatigue which affects not only capital jumping but titan bridges and jump bridges as well, we will get less player density and more players spread out unable to timely make the trip home, most likely just idling in stations. This is the opposite of how we want null sec to be.


Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2505 - 2014-10-02 05:29:33 UTC
Kalissis wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
I play eve for the big fights. Now they will be so rare :(


So you like doing nothing while watching a circle saying you "there is 99% TIDI". Thats fun, right?
Big fights will happen, they just wont screw everybodys fun - unless pooping whie in fleet and not missing a single kill, is your kind of fun.

99% TIDI doesn't mean what you think it means....
Nolak Ataru
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2506 - 2014-10-02 05:30:16 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
In lowsec maybe, but absent a 1000mn mwd a webbed down capital 20km from a gate is going to have a hell of a time getting back to it.

In nullsec every one of those regional gates that is more than 5 light years between systems will have a 300km sphere of bubbles around them at all times. Have fun warping your cap/super into that


Now where did I see these arguments before....

oh right, the wh forum in the topic regarding the mass changes!
Kah'Roor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2507 - 2014-10-02 05:31:40 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Kah'Roor wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


So what you are saying is that you dont have anyone else doing some of the "workload", see you are playing eve wrong. if you do 8 hours logistics, why dont you do something fun instead? Like RvB fleets! Let someone competent do the not so fun things as you say it.

And yes, goons for example have a T1 doctrine they fly, so NULL will use T1 more, NULL will adopt. And logistics should be "per player" and not loaded to someone alone for the whole 10k Players allinace, because see whats the point in not having fun in EVE. If you dont have fun, as I said before, you are doing it wrong.


I am having fun with what remains of my week after logistics is done. After this change, logistics will never be done. I can adapt by finding about 7 other players who each have 4+ accounts (or they'd be overloaded), but if I had that many players who have that many accounts I would not be one of the smaller groups this change is supposed to be helping.

Weren't you quitting? Oh well, welcome back. I knew you could adapt and thrive.


How can I possibly argue with one who has such astute reading comprehension?

Oh wait, it doesn't take any to troll.

But to clarify, I said I will unsub in the unlikely event the JF range nerf happens as specified. My "-8 subs" will wait until then.

You're correct sir. Bye again.
Yuri Fedorov
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2508 - 2014-10-02 05:32:55 UTC
Please CCP

Cap the fatigue at 24h. Any longer than that and it becomes seriously gamebreaking. It shouldn't take months to cool off a 5 jump trip.
Draciste
Everyone vs Everything
#2509 - 2014-10-02 05:34:15 UTC
Give JFs and Rorqs bonus not only to "fatigue" but also to "jump range" and most of the relevant problems with this change is solved.
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#2510 - 2014-10-02 05:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zepheros Naeonis
If jump fatigue, cool down timers and travel time for using jump drvies are going to exist, then anyone jumping through a Stargate or an ACTUAL wormhole should technically be hit with the same restraints as well since all forms of travel use wormholes. Not that a sci-fi game needs to make any sense, but lets at least be consistant here if we are going to make stupid and ridiculous changes without actually putting any thought behind it.
Kalissis
#2511 - 2014-10-02 05:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalissis
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
Please CCP

Cap the fatigue at 24h. Any longer than that and it becomes seriously gamebreaking. It shouldn't take months to cool off a 5 jump trip.


if you for some reason need to go that far this means you are moving your "home" this means you dont need to move again in the near future. if for some reason you need to, use the gate. Eve is real.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#2512 - 2014-10-02 05:35:43 UTC
Don't forget that it's not just getting to the battle, but extraction as well. Retreat won't be much of an option
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2513 - 2014-10-02 05:35:55 UTC
Draciste wrote:
Give JFs and Rorqs bonus not only to "fatigue" but also to "jump range" and most of the relevant problems with this change is solved.

Exactly.
Kalissis
#2514 - 2014-10-02 05:36:32 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Don't forget that it's not just getting to the battle, but extraction as well. Retreat won't be much of an option


Plan ahead, problem solved.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2515 - 2014-10-02 05:37:26 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
I play eve for the big fights. Now they will be so rare :(



I agree that there will be fewer but there aren't many as it is. I think changes like this will create bottlenecks and staging areas that may increase the chances of larger fights because now large wars will have to take small steps to staging areas to build up forces and that will encourage others to try to stop them and cause more build ups and more fights. All of those staging areas will be very valuable and those forces in the area will be valuable so fights will happen. Yes, I do believe that huge fights will not be as likely but we will probably see more medium to large fights. This change allows for the potential for large fight to happen and as of right now there is little potential in null.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#2516 - 2014-10-02 05:38:01 UTC
Thinning the herd. Its going to be great.
KanashiiKami
#2517 - 2014-10-02 05:38:18 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


So what you are saying is that you dont have anyone else doing some of the "workload", see you are playing eve wrong. if you do 8 hours logistics, why dont you do something fun instead? Like RvB fleets! Let someone competent do the not so fun things as you say it.

And yes, goons for example have a T1 doctrine they fly, so NULL will use T1 more, NULL will adopt. And logistics should be "per player" and not loaded to someone alone for the whole 10k Players allinace, because see whats the point in not having fun in EVE. If you dont have fun, as I said before, you are doing it wrong.


I am having fun with what remains of my week after logistics is done. After this change, logistics will never be done. I can adapt by finding about 7 other players who each have 4+ accounts (or they'd be overloaded), but if I had that many players who have that many accounts I would not be one of the smaller groups this change is supposed to be helping.


when CCP reads this, they are happy, they are happy they have made us do our logistics, used time on it.

CCP is farming us Twisted

WUT ???

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2518 - 2014-10-02 05:39:31 UTC
Burl en Daire wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
I play eve for the big fights. Now they will be so rare :(



I agree that there will be fewer but there aren't many as it is. I think changes like this will create bottlenecks and staging areas that may increase the chances of larger fights because now large wars will have to take small steps to staging areas to build up forces and that will encourage others to try to stop them and cause more build ups and more fights. All of those staging areas will be very valuable and those forces in the area will be valuable so fights will happen. Yes, I do believe that huge fights will not be as likely but we will probably see more medium to large fights. This change allows for the potential for large fight to happen and as of right now there is little potential in null.


You should have been here during the Halloween War - tons of epic fights at staging systems, it was the most glorious EVE has ever been, and - according to this devblog - ever will be.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
Somethin Awfull Forums
#2519 - 2014-10-02 05:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
OldWolf69 wrote:
Welcome to buying overpriced spaceships in null by buying more plex from CCP. Because logistics will become a real nightmare. Fun to see how few see that this is the real target, and how many idiots like Massadeath think CCP gave them the keys to the kingdom. CCP, i tought i saw most of the stupid things ever already. It's just proven i was wrong. Lol Well, it's not stupid, it's just bad intended towards players and their RL wallets. But betting on people's addiction on a game to get money, if you remove most of the fun they get by playing, it's a really stupid move. This to use a "light" qualificative for your RL jewing abilities.



It's going to work in reverse as well.

Jita is T2 central but you don't make anything T2 in Jita. It's all Null imports.

I think before this makes it to live even CCP will see the heavy handed nature of what they are trying to do. JF's and Rorquals need to be waved on the 5.00 AU rule in addition to the .1 Fatigue multiplier. If anything give JF's and Rorquals more range. Isolation never worked in EVE. Look to the Solitude Region for proof of that. It's a carebears paradise except for the isolation. None are there.

Of course the bittervet in me is wondering if CCP aren't pulling a card out of the Gas companies little bag of tricks. Jack up gas $2 a gallon, then recede to .75 and people think they got off lucky.
KanashiiKami
#2520 - 2014-10-02 05:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: KanashiiKami
Kalissis wrote:
Yuri Fedorov wrote:
Please CCP

Cap the fatigue at 24h. Any longer than that and it becomes seriously gamebreaking. It shouldn't take months to cool off a 5 jump trip.


if you for some reason need to go that far this means you are moving your "home" this means you dont need to move again in the near future. if for some reason you need to, use the gate. Eve is real.


im actually for a longer overall final fatique CD. but im for a lower in between jump CD.

as per what i said here, perhaps DEV could look at reduction or simplifying the mechanics
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5074624#post5074624

in terms of timed issues, make them WHOLE numbers. maybe it will also make the game less laggy as we process less floating variables. imagine if all non essential floating double precision numbers are now integers, its like removing all irrelevant posts ... clean compact.

WUT ???