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The Null Deal: A Statement from Sovereign Nullsec

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#761 - 2014-10-01 23:29:50 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
one of biggest appeals of this game was originally the cut throat universe, exploiting everything to your advantage and taking any little chance to stab your enemy in the back and take his land. What you're asking for is a complete change of mentality of the game, where people are responsible to make it fair all of the sudden because mechanics lead them into a dead end.
That wouldn't be eve-like anymore, I wonder who would want to play this for any longer time once CCP refuses to fix their game and bring back a dark cut throat universe upon players.


CCP has already changed sov mechanics once, to something arguably worse than the previous arrangement. Why not do it again? I mean it's perfectly ok for everyone else to demand a change to game mechanics when it suits them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#762 - 2014-10-01 23:33:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Actually, they are. There is nothing in these proposals that say anything about reducing passive isk income (moon income), and making null sec systems more valuable from an isk generation point of view only increases their rental value (further increasing passive income).

The proposal is: "Give us more valuable specific income and we'll let others have 0.0 space"
The reality, if the proposal is accepted by CCP, will likely be: "Thank you for the more valuable systems, we can now increase rent"

The solution should be occupancy based sov with no increase in specific income of 0.0 systems.



Rental empires will become impossible to do with this change. Also, moon goo generates around the same per month as a single ice miner. If you do not shift from anoms to something that will allow an infinite group of people to live in a system then not a single alliance will be able to support their members with their space.

Seriously, this is something like the tenth time you have had this explained to you and you still continue with this fabrication.

Rental empires will be easy for you to enforce with conventional fleets. First, the renters will be the most active players in the systems - so keeping de facto sov will be really easy. Second, when somebody does make a serious push for the rental space, your conventional fleets will show up to kick them out.

And now you'll be able to rat afk in your home systems with less risk than a high sec mission running care bear.

There's still no reason to increase the specific income of null sec systems.



Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#763 - 2014-10-01 23:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
X Gallentius wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Actually, they are. There is nothing in these proposals that say anything about reducing passive isk income (moon income), and making null sec systems more valuable from an isk generation point of view only increases their rental value (further increasing passive income).

The proposal is: "Give us more valuable specific income and we'll let others have 0.0 space"
The reality, if the proposal is accepted by CCP, will likely be: "Thank you for the more valuable systems, we can now increase rent"

The solution should be occupancy based sov with no increase in specific income of 0.0 systems.



Rental empires will become impossible to do with this change. Also, moon goo generates around the same per month as a single ice miner. If you do not shift from anoms to something that will allow an infinite group of people to live in a system then not a single alliance will be able to support their members with their space.

Seriously, this is something like the tenth time you have had this explained to you and you still continue with this fabrication.

Rental empires will be easy for you to enforce with conventional fleets. First, the renters will be the most active players in the systems - so keeping de facto sov will be really easy. Second, when somebody does make a serious push for the rental space, your conventional fleets will show up to kick them out.

And now you'll be able to rat afk in your home systems with less risk than a high sec mission running care bear.

There's still no reason to increase the specific income of null sec systems.





Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#764 - 2014-10-02 00:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Muhaha! This suggestion was all about cowardice! The new dev blog is out with the jump changes and it's clear that you can't travel fast further than a region. So if PASTA attacks Delve and BL attacks Branch, Goons can sloooowly travel to one, but in the other place LAWN or FCON will have to fend for itself. And Goons won't be home till next day, so MoA will burn Deklein in the meantime.

You knew about it from your CSMs, so you figured out that you just pack all your coalition into one region so you can defend it from small groups.

You didn't care that you'd destroy the game and remove all combat. Shame on you!

Last post from me here, I have ISK to make, the pirate groups will use it well after the jump nerfs are up. See you in Branch chickens!


I was going to mention that the nerfs that are coming to jumping will negate some of the claims of quickly rolling over some smaller entity...
however, prior knowledge of the changes via CSM candidates equate to a breach of the NDA doesn't it?, especially if the supposition of prior knowledge precipitated this "joint" deal announcement as a way to appear more in tune with what's needed is correct.

just saying... and good call.

o/
Celly Smunt

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#765 - 2014-10-02 00:39:27 UTC
Celly S wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Muhaha! This suggestion was all about cowardice! The new dev blog is out with the jump changes and it's clear that you can't travel fast further than a region. So if PASTA attacks Delve and BL attacks Branch, Goons can sloooowly travel to one, but in the other place LAWN or FCON will have to fend for itself. And Goons won't be home till next day, so MoA will burn Deklein in the meantime.

You knew about it from your CSMs, so you figured out that you just pack all your coalition into one region so you can defend it from small groups.

You didn't care that you'd destroy the game and remove all combat. Shame on you!

Last post from me here, I have ISK to make, the pirate groups will use it well after the jump nerfs are up. See you in Branch chickens!


I was going to mention that the nerfs that are coming to jumping will negate some of the claims of quickly rolling over some smaller entity...
however, prior knowledge of the changes via CSM candidates equate to a breach of the NDA doesn't it?, especially if the supposition of prior knowledge precipitated this "joint" deal announcement as a way to appear more in tune with what's needed is correct.

just saying... and good call.

o/
Celly Smunt


Yeah that guy has it all worked out. Good job.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#766 - 2014-10-02 00:47:15 UTC
Roll I don't know who's dumber, Gobbo or his fans.

We all knew power projection nerfs were coming, genius. The pretty much stated it outright at fanfest. Gevlon is acting smug because he "predicted" common knowledge, connected the dots wrong so he could accuse goons of whatever tinfoil hat theory he has this time, then failed to read the part of the dev blog that states that sov will likely be changed in the exact way called for by null leadership.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#767 - 2014-10-02 00:51:03 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

Tell me you guys can't continue easily defend your rental areas down at the bottom left side of the map. With a straight face please.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#768 - 2014-10-02 01:09:47 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

Tell me you guys can't continue easily defend your rental areas down at the bottom left side of the map. With a straight face please.


I'm 100% sure that we give zero fucks about people looking to kill ratters in renter space.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#769 - 2014-10-02 01:26:24 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

Tell me you guys can't continue easily defend your rental areas down at the bottom left side of the map. With a straight face please.


I'm 100% sure that we give zero fucks about people looking to kill ratters in renter space.
So the answer is "yes, you will maintain rental empire".
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#770 - 2014-10-02 01:28:45 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Roll I don't know who's dumber, Gobbo or his fans.


I'm not sure that fanaticism has anything to do with it, While I personally don't know who he is outside of his post here, his comment is entirely plausible, if there's something that he's said elsewhere that leads folks to believe he's just making a statement based on what everyone already knew was coming?, then doesn't that still validate his statement?.

He may be "stating the obvious" if that's the case, but that doesn't mean he's wrong and demeaning his comment only reflects badly on the person doing it more-so than the target of the beratement.

*shrugs..

o/
Celly Smunt




Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#771 - 2014-10-02 08:06:01 UTC
Celly S wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Roll I don't know who's dumber, Gobbo or his fans.


I'm not sure that fanaticism has anything to do with it, While I personally don't know who he is outside of his post here, his comment is entirely plausible, if there's something that he's said elsewhere that leads folks to believe he's just making a statement based on what everyone already knew was coming?, then doesn't that still validate his statement?.

He may be "stating the obvious" if that's the case, but that doesn't mean he's wrong and demeaning his comment only reflects badly on the person doing it more-so than the target of the beratement.

*shrugs..
So his "you knew about it from your CSMs" is validated? It's all tinfoil hattery. And while the force projection changes will make it harder to move about (but not much, interceptors can get you across the map in 15-20 minutes and we have ships stashed everywhere) it will also mean the chances of us being attacked in out deepest sov is slim, since nobody is likely to slowboat through hostile space, and multiple jumping into hostile space will leave you trapped there for a significant time.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#772 - 2014-10-02 09:11:26 UTC
i know that some of you may not understand these things but our CSM guys aren't stupid enough to violate the NDA because it's an actual binding agreement between them and CCP

there are actual consequences for violating it and even if CCP doesn't pursue legal action, you really wouldn't want a potential employer to google your name and see "NDA breach" in the top results

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#773 - 2014-10-02 12:49:25 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

Tell me you guys can't continue easily defend your rental areas down at the bottom left side of the map. With a straight face please.


I'm 100% sure that we give zero fucks about people looking to kill ratters in renter space.
So the answer is "yes, you will maintain rental empire".


I'm not the person to ask. Why don't you shoot a mail off the mynnna & ask? He's pretty friendly & likes meeting new people.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#774 - 2014-10-02 12:56:31 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Individual player income is more important than alliance level income & currently that player level income is less than what is available in highsec.

Also no, under the proposed change there will be more people roaming around nullsec looking for kills than ever.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

Tell me you guys can't continue easily defend your rental areas down at the bottom left side of the map. With a straight face please.


I'm 100% sure that we give zero fucks about people looking to kill ratters in renter space.
So the answer is "yes, you will maintain rental empire".


I'm not the person to ask. Why don't you shoot a mail off the mynnna & ask? He's pretty friendly & likes meeting new people.
I imagine whatever change is made, the options for moving into nullsec will always be:
1. Pay someone to live there
2. Blue someone to live there
3. Get roflstomped by the existing coalitions

For those going "but provi but provi!", that's number 2, they just extend blue to cover grey so you are "blue" until you get added to the absolutely enormous list of reds..

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#775 - 2014-10-02 13:39:05 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I'm not the person to ask. Why don't you shoot a mail off the mynnna & ask? He's pretty friendly & likes meeting new people.
rgr, thanks for responding.
Celly S
Neutin Local LLC
#776 - 2014-10-03 01:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
Lucas Kell wrote:
Celly S wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Roll I don't know who's dumber, Gobbo or his fans.


I'm not sure that fanaticism has anything to do with it, While I personally don't know who he is outside of his post here, his comment is entirely plausible, if there's something that he's said elsewhere that leads folks to believe he's just making a statement based on what everyone already knew was coming?, then doesn't that still validate his statement?.

He may be "stating the obvious" if that's the case, but that doesn't mean he's wrong and demeaning his comment only reflects badly on the person doing it more-so than the target of the beratement.

*shrugs..
So his "you knew about it from your CSMs" is validated? It's all tinfoil hattery. And while the force projection changes will make it harder to move about (but not much, interceptors can get you across the map in 15-20 minutes and we have ships stashed everywhere) it will also mean the chances of us being attacked in out deepest sov is slim, since nobody is likely to slowboat through hostile space, and multiple jumping into hostile space will leave you trapped there for a significant time.


I said his statement was plausible... the rest of it was an example of why berating someone isn't the best thing to do.
as to the force projection thing, it is true that these changes are going to force people to approach things in a different manner than is currently done.

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#777 - 2014-10-03 06:20:42 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
So the answer is "yes, you will maintain rental empire".


With a change to occupancy sov no we wont. We replace rental empire income with taxing our own members running missions in our own space. Thats the whole point of having a bottom up income stream for allainces, it is much better for the line members and gives them a reason to want to live in the empire the fight to build and protect.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#778 - 2014-10-03 06:30:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
So the answer is "yes, you will maintain rental empire".


With a change to occupancy sov no we wont. We replace rental empire income with taxing our own members running missions in our own space. Thats the whole point of having a bottom up income stream for allainces, it is much better for the line members and gives them a reason to want to live in the empire the fight to build and protect.
We'll see. Nothing has been revealed by CCP suggests that defending your rental empire will be difficult at all.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#779 - 2014-10-03 10:59:34 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Roll I don't know who's dumber, Gobbo or his fans.

We all knew power projection nerfs were coming, genius. The pretty much stated it outright at fanfest. Gevlon is acting smug because he "predicted" common knowledge, connected the dots wrong so he could accuse goons of whatever tinfoil hat theory he has this time, then failed to read the part of the dev blog that states that sov will likely be changed in the exact way called for by null leadership.


It's pretty hilarious that you expect people to think the Goon elected CSM representatives don't leak inside information to their boss. Pure comedy.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#780 - 2014-10-03 13:51:55 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Roll I don't know who's dumber, Gobbo or his fans.

We all knew power projection nerfs were coming, genius. The pretty much stated it outright at fanfest. Gevlon is acting smug because he "predicted" common knowledge, connected the dots wrong so he could accuse goons of whatever tinfoil hat theory he has this time, then failed to read the part of the dev blog that states that sov will likely be changed in the exact way called for by null leadership.


It's pretty hilarious that you expect people to think the Goon elected CSM representatives don't leak inside information to their boss. Pure comedy.


Given that it would be very easy for CCP to figure this out and dump them out of the CSM staining their RL name forever with an NDA violation, yes, its rather easy to see why they don't tell alliances anything.