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CCP what did you do to Sleepers?

First post First post First post
Author
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#41 - 2014-10-01 13:32:31 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
Oh look, goontrolls wandered in here again begging for attention.

About this fix screwing over lowerclasses, correct me if I am wrong but isn´t there only more than one BS preserver in the harder c3 radar and two c4 sites. Only one Preserver per wave just tells you what to shoot first.


There are 3 Preservers in the C4 command post's last spawn
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#42 - 2014-10-01 13:34:40 UTC
umnikar wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
Oh look, goontrolls wandered in here again begging for attention.

About this fix screwing over lowerclasses, correct me if I am wrong but isn´t there only more than one BS preserver in the harder c3 radar and two c4 sites. Only one Preserver per wave just tells you what to shoot first.


There are 3 Preservers in the C4 command post's last spawn


As per my post in the other thread:

Rroff wrote:

Ouch if my maths is right the last wave on the Frontier Command Post with RR actually properly working can keep the defenders up against almost 1k dps (applied) - so obviously don't go for those first

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#43 - 2014-10-01 13:44:41 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
Oh look, goontrolls wandered in here again begging for attention.

About this fix screwing over lowerclasses, correct me if I am wrong but isn´t there only more than one BS preserver in the harder c3 radar and two c4 sites. Only one Preserver per wave just tells you what to shoot first.


As stated, yes it really doesn't change C1-C3. It really does smack down C4's harder, on top of them becoming WH super highways and such.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-10-01 13:49:03 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
haha wormholers got screwed

goback2highsec and get in line to run incursions with everyone else you poors


to be fair the incursions have also been "fixed"
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#45 - 2014-10-01 13:56:36 UTC
Rroff wrote:
umnikar wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
Oh look, goontrolls wandered in here again begging for attention.

About this fix screwing over lowerclasses, correct me if I am wrong but isn´t there only more than one BS preserver in the harder c3 radar and two c4 sites. Only one Preserver per wave just tells you what to shoot first.


There are 3 Preservers in the C4 command post's last spawn


As per my post in the other thread:

Rroff wrote:

Ouch if my maths is right the last wave on the Frontier Command Post with RR actually properly working can keep the defenders up against almost 1k dps (applied) - so obviously don't go for those first



Yeah, I could still farm em like a Boss...if there weren't so many k162 around. ;)
Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-10-01 13:58:00 UTC
fk's sake. what IS it with the whiney BS attitude in WHs these days?
back in my day, sleepers RRed and got bonused in cataclysmics. now THAT was a grind fest.

PS: these changes have actual zero impact on cap escalation income/difficulty though solo marauders are probably entering sad phase.

There is no Bob.

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Traba Regina
Serene Vendetta
#47 - 2014-10-01 14:01:31 UTC
Just a thought.. but would jamming the sleepers reduce there remote rep ability? I don't know if they affect npc too npc?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5171792#post5171792

Marox Calendale
Tsukia Industries
#48 - 2014-10-01 14:33:04 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Marox Calendale wrote:
And all those players will come back to wh when this balance has happened. It´s just a question how you adapt in the meantime.

You still think they will fix this someday?

Hyperion release was over a month ago... and what did they do to address the concerns that the players expressed?
No "yes, there might be an issue" or "we'll look into that" but instead more nerfs to w-space.

Just look at how Fozzie responded to this thread: No mention that they might look into the implications this has for w-space or even change anything about it - he just states that the nerf is intended. Hell, corbexx had to literally drag him in here to at least tell us that they nerfed w-space again.

Don't be illusional. CCP doesn't give a sh*t about w-space. There won't be any fix for this mess.

What has to get fixed? Hyperion changes? I say no.
Mass Distance change doesn´t affect subcapital ship´s except orcas. So you have to close your holes with battleships. That isn´t a big deal.
New connectivity? Great! Increases risk very much, but it´s a way better than those 5 - 6 system chains we had before hyperion. Today it´s pretty easy to get everywhere in K-Space without rolling your static several times.
Wasted Wormhole Systems? This is what it used to be even before hyperion. You just didn't see it, because of the short chains. Sure some have left. But that aren´t so much as some want to make us believe. J-Space was already a waste land in the past months.
K162 Spawns? Ok. I think it´s a good compromise between gankers and victims.
Frig Holes? Useless, but not that bad at all.

And now those RR Fixing. Hell, what do you want? Doing C4/C5 Sites in a single tengu? You can still handle it in a marauder and if not, where is the problem to take a group of friends with you?

The only reason why we don´t do any C4 Sites at the moment is that its income is like you´re doing group mining in Highsec! (With a way more risk). And the only reason for that is, that you need a lot more people and time for preparing your hole.

Sorry but I can´t comprehend all that whine what was coming up in the past weeks. Hyperion was a big change to wh live, but the way J-Space works, is still great. It´s still a mostly randomized area and you always have to look behind you, if there isn´t someone who wants to stab you with his dagger right in your back.

From my point of view there are just 2 things that must be fixed in the future.

1) Comunication between CCP and their customers. The new changing period is good, but they have to inform us very, very faster about what they are changing!

2) Changing C1 - C4 (I don´t like to say low class, as there are no big differences in WH classes left) income abilities. The risk/reward ratio has to be right again.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#49 - 2014-10-01 14:37:40 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
fk's sake. what IS it with the whiney BS attitude in WHs these days?
back in my day, sleepers RRed and got bonused in cataclysmics. now THAT was a grind fest.

PS: these changes have actual zero impact on cap escalation income/difficulty though solo marauders are probably entering sad phase.

As stated, more than once already in this gestational threadnaught, this will likely have little effect on cap escalation fleets.

Low class systems drive wspace population though. Longer site completion times for lower class systems will likely mean fewer people willing to do them/move in.

I'm right behind you

Jack Branigan
Polaris Rising
The Bastion
#50 - 2014-10-01 14:42:50 UTC
Going hardcore Golum style on my sleepr loot in 3......2.....1....... "my precious.....nanoribbons.."
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#51 - 2014-10-01 14:51:36 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.

Quote:
The Mara Paleo Incursion NPC now remote repairs correctly.


The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.

I'm sorry but you've used that card way too many times now, I'm sure by now everyone has begun to question CCP as game devs seeing most of wormhole space was "set up wrong".
CivilWars
Half Empty
#52 - 2014-10-01 14:52:41 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
fk's sake. what IS it with the whiney BS attitude in WHs these days?
back in my day, sleepers RRed and got bonused in cataclysmics. now THAT was a grind fest.

PS: these changes have actual zero impact on cap escalation income/difficulty though solo marauders are probably entering sad phase.

As stated, more than once already in this gestational threadnaught, this will likely have little effect on cap escalation fleets.

Low class systems drive wspace population though. Longer site completion times for lower class systems will likely mean fewer people willing to do them/move in.

Also as stated it has little/no effect on C1-3 space. The only people truly affected by this are C4 residents/farmers, but I'll be damned if the sky isn't falling yet again.

Rolled Out is re.... oh wait, better not say that again.

Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:

Jack Miton liked your forum post:

Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#53 - 2014-10-01 15:08:27 UTC
I run C4 sites currently for 200mil/hr average, and can probably negate this RR issue by switching to blasters for those anoms/waves. It might affect the completion times, but I don't think the change is dramatic.

Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#54 - 2014-10-01 15:11:12 UTC
Marox Calendale wrote:

What has to get fixed?
...

The only reason why we don´t do any C4 Sites at the moment is that its income is like you´re doing group mining in Highsec! (With a way more risk).
...

From my point of view there are just 2 things that must be fixed in the future.

1) Comunication between CCP and their customers.
2) Changing C1 - C4 (I don´t like to say low class, as there are no big differences in WH classes left) income abilities. The risk/reward ratio has to be right again.

It's always funny when people ask a question and then give the answer themselves a few sentences later.

Increasing risk is fine. Increasing risk while at the same time decreasing the rewards (which where already in a poor state to begin with) is not.
Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#55 - 2014-10-01 15:12:24 UTC
CivilWars wrote:
The only people truly affected by this are C4 residents/farmers,


The end result really will depend on the fleet comp you run. I don't expect much difference post "fix" TBH. I do expect the days of solo Marauders, which are a rare find as it is (usually 2x per site), will be coming to an end though. I hope to do some testing tonight and see what the real result is...

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

Judas Lonestar
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#56 - 2014-10-01 15:54:45 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
haha wormholers got screwed

goback2highsec and get in line to run incursions with everyone else you poors


If you saw how effectively we can clean out high class wormhole sites you'd fall over dead if we decided to come run Incursions.

Be careful what you wish for.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2014-10-01 15:55:17 UTC
maybe next week I'll go run all the sites again on sisi and put in new numbers so we can see what the effect will potentially be.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#58 - 2014-10-01 16:27:11 UTC
CivilWars wrote:
Alundil wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
fk's sake. what IS it with the whiney BS attitude in WHs these days?
back in my day, sleepers RRed and got bonused in cataclysmics. now THAT was a grind fest.

PS: these changes have actual zero impact on cap escalation income/difficulty though solo marauders are probably entering sad phase.

As stated, more than once already in this gestational threadnaught, this will likely have little effect on cap escalation fleets.

Low class systems drive wspace population though. Longer site completion times for lower class systems will likely mean fewer people willing to do them/move in.

Also as stated it has little/no effect on C1-3 space. The only people truly affected by this are C4 residents/farmers, but I'll be damned if the sky isn't falling yet again.

Rolled Out is re.... oh wait, better not say that again.

Sigh....

Downstream effects. Those are the things that we should all be paying attention to when talking about/thinking about either proposed CCP changes or realized CCP changes as this appears to be. That's my point.

Ongoing apathy towards things under "Well it doesn't affect me." is largely how the various areas in the game have devolved into the circlejerk of "This is ****** or that is ****** or that is free intel, riskless isk, etcetc" and is frankly disappointing to see.

But too, isn't something you and I haven't beaten to death over drinks and/or G+Talk.

TTYL

I'm right behind you

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#59 - 2014-10-01 16:55:35 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
I run C4 sites currently for 200mil/hr average, and can probably negate this RR issue by switching to blasters for those anoms/waves. It might affect the completion times, but I don't think the change is dramatic.



Blasters would give you the DPS for those waves but you might find range an issue in some cases, also there are 1-2 waves like the last one on the outpost where you might not be able to apply enough effective dps from a single marauder to break the RR though.
Mr Macus
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-10-01 17:27:26 UTC
corbexx wrote:
maybe next week I'll go run all the sites again on sisi and put in new numbers so we can see what the effect will potentially be.


im fine with group content but this really puts the hurt on the smaller corps, 1 dude in a marauder clearing sites in a blinged out ship not being able to run sites anymore for completely dumb isk is fine. However this really puts the hurt on dudes trying to clear c5's in 4-5 man groups before we could do 3 but it'd be slow till more corp mates showed up. After this change we cant attempt a site in tengu's at all anymore even with 5 people, as all but the worst site will approach a total slog to clear. Domi's have faired a bit better but can still run into issues.

This change hasnt effected our capital clearing at all since we basically volley the BS off the field, its a straight kick in the nads to our lower sp and non capital using members. As i said before if its intended fine thats life we will adjust just as we did to the apparently broken mechanics but if the intention was to destroy non capital using worm-hole groups living in higher tier wormhole space thats going to cause quite a few wh corps to close up shop.

Now incursion runners will complain that they need 10 people to run a site but if you cram 10 people into a c5 and run a site you are splitting 200m 10 ways the amount of time and lack of sites would cause that group to make hardly any isk.