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The Null Deal: A Statement from Sovereign Nullsec

First post First post
Author
Regatto
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#681 - 2014-10-01 13:42:33 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Regatto wrote:
Honestly I know this won't happen, cause its obvious that ppl like Vince are egomaniacs that just want to hoard power and isk(lets wonder why). So basically, even though they have power, they won't do anything about it. They will rather have their members run around eve and dunk on some hopeless groups like provi to keep their pilots "entertained" and quiet.
No, it's because they are players of the game, not employees of CCP there to keep the game in check when the mechanics fail to do so. It's not their responsibility to step in and play differently when the developers of the game fail to design their game properly.



Exactly! I didn't say they would need to fix their games, just their heads. As leaders of the biggest groups, they should try to make game fun for their pilots, shouldn't they?? I mean why are you even following somebody who doesn't give a crap about you and just focuses on himself? Instead of trying to tell devs how to fix the game way they like, they could think how their subjects can have more fun in this game.
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
#682 - 2014-10-01 13:44:42 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Regatto wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

You do realise that we are not blue with half of nullsec right?

You know, this thread might not get any CCP response in it but at least they can see the poor arguments people are trying to use to keep the status quo.


No...? Only like 12 regions? :D while in another half you can't even use caps because of that deal with PL to keep your supers/caps safe? Just to be sure...


Goon and pets broke it, they need to fix it. Goons are scared, hence the propaganda machine.


CCP broke it. Goons just took advantage of the game mechanics as they currently function.
Regatto
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#683 - 2014-10-01 13:45:30 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:

You broke it, YOU fix it.


how exactly would you expect them to fix it?
Reset friendly alliances? Cancel BOTLRD?

There are still gazillions of structure HP noone wants to grind through at 0.1% tidi.

C'mon, get real.


Thats the part pilots could change yes, ccp needs to change the rest. There won't be tidi if there are couple of alliances nuking it out. You also wont need to grind through 5regions of sov if you don't need to rent it out.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#684 - 2014-10-01 13:45:32 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:

Goon and pets broke it, they need to fix it. Goons are scared, hence the propaganda machine.


They did not break anything. It was already broken because CCP did not do a good job.

Using mechanics as they exist is not "breaking" anything.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#685 - 2014-10-01 13:46:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:


Goon and pets broke it, they need to fix it. Goons are scared, hence the propaganda machine.


Who put in the mechanics to hold hundreds of empty systems forever?

Who put in the mechanics that makes our fleets unkillable?

Who put in the mechanics that force us to need huge areas of space to support our members?


Who blued "everyone". Goon.

Did they nerf intercepters enough for you? Or are they still a threat.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#686 - 2014-10-01 13:48:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:

Goon and pets broke it, they need to fix it. Goons are scared, hence the propaganda machine.


They did not break anything. It was already broken because CCP did not do a good job.

Using mechanics as they exist is not "breaking" anything.


Because CCP intended everyone to agree on treaties with everyone else because they are scared.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#687 - 2014-10-01 13:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:


Goon and pets broke it, they need to fix it. Goons are scared, hence the propaganda machine.


Who put in the mechanics to hold hundreds of empty systems forever?

Who put in the mechanics that makes our fleets unkillable?

Who put in the mechanics that force us to need huge areas of space to support our members?


Who blued "everyone". Goon.

Did they nerf intercepters enough for you? Or are they still a threat.


Nobody is blue with everyone. We are currently not blue with half of null, all of low sec and all of high sec.

Interceptors got another balance pass to balance them. So guess that made us right doesn't it?


Now, lets have some answers to those three questions I asked of you. Who is responsible for those mechanics?
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#688 - 2014-10-01 13:52:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:


Goon and pets broke it, they need to fix it. Goons are scared, hence the propaganda machine.


Who put in the mechanics to hold hundreds of empty systems forever?

Who put in the mechanics that makes our fleets unkillable?

Who put in the mechanics that force us to need huge areas of space to support our members?


Who blued "everyone". Goon.

Did they nerf intercepters enough for you? Or are they still a threat.


Nobody is blue with everyone. We are currently not blue with half of null, all of low sec and all of high sec.

Interceptors got another balance pass to balance them. So guess that made us right doesn't it?


Now, lets have some answers to those three questions I asked of you. Who is responsible for those mechanics?


Not technically blue, just have treaties with. Oh, now. That makes a big difference.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#689 - 2014-10-01 13:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Arsine Mayhem wrote:


Not technically blue, just have treaties with. Oh, now. That makes a big difference.


Given that they still attack us it seems that there is a very big difference. Now, lets have those answers to the asked questions.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#690 - 2014-10-01 13:55:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Who put in the mechanics that force us to need huge areas of space to support our members?


This point I never really understood. How do empty systems sustain players? Moons? With the now very limited income amount? They can also be harvested in unclaimed systems. Anoms? Again: empty systems? PI? Should I start counting Interbus Pocos in Sov 00? What else is there that I don't see?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#691 - 2014-10-01 13:58:42 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Who put in the mechanics that force us to need huge areas of space to support our members?


This point I never really understood. How do empty systems sustain players? Moons? With the now very limited income amount? They can also be harvested in unclaimed systems. Anoms? Again: empty systems? PI? Should I start counting Interbus Pocos in Sov 00? What else is there that I don't see?


Renting. Take large amounts of space, make people who want to live there pay tribute, use said tribute for SRP and other beneficial things.

And thanks to the economy of scale, large numbers are needed to win. But thanks to CCP screwing up null income so badly at the conceptual level, the numbers needed to win cannot be reasonably sustained by the income derived from living there, hence the need to expand.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Eyrun Mangeiri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#692 - 2014-10-01 14:00:03 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:

Goon and pets broke it, they need to fix it. Goons are scared, hence the propaganda machine.


They did not break anything. It was already broken because CCP did not do a good job.

Using mechanics as they exist is not "breaking" anything.


Because CCP intended everyone to agree on treaties with everyone else because they are scared.


So the "good eve player" attacks everyone on sight, because setting anyone blue breaks the rules. I see. I don't know why people are even atempting to discuss the matter with you anymore. It's clear that the only solution you'd accept is goons "and pets" quitting EVE forever.

I could now say that EVE as a game should be fun, and that BOTLRD may change nothing, because even N3 is not attacking any sov.

I play EVE 9 month now and even I find the current sov games the most boring **** ever with the current set of mechanics. So any change is welcome, and the CFC quitting EVE would change nothing.

I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#693 - 2014-10-01 14:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Who put in the mechanics that force us to need huge areas of space to support our members?


This point I never really understood. How do empty systems sustain players? Moons? With the now very limited income amount? They can also be harvested in unclaimed systems. Anoms? Again: empty systems? PI? Should I start counting Interbus Pocos in Sov 00? What else is there that I don't see?


Thats the cap of 10 people per system. That the systems are so bad nobody want to rat in them makes little difference. If it ever became viable to run anoms in them for line members then we will need the systems to support our pilots. To put this issue into context, we currently have more pilots than our systems could support. Under the current system if only 10% of our members in the CFC went ratting we would need around 3000 systems.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#694 - 2014-10-01 14:01:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Who put in the mechanics that force us to need huge areas of space to support our members?


This point I never really understood. How do empty systems sustain players? Moons? With the now very limited income amount? They can also be harvested in unclaimed systems. Anoms? Again: empty systems? PI? Should I start counting Interbus Pocos in Sov 00? What else is there that I don't see?


Thats the cap of 10 people per system. That they systems are so bad nobody want to rat in them makes little difference. If it ever became viable to run anoms in them for line members then we will need the systems to support our pilots. To put this issue into context, we currently have more pilots than our systems could support. Under the current system if only 10% of our members in the CFC went ratting we would need around 3000 systems.


Then if they are worthless why keep them to begin with?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Anthar Thebess
#695 - 2014-10-01 14:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Arsine Mayhem wrote:

Because CCP intended everyone to agree on treaties with everyone else because they are scared.

You know what.

You are right .
PL should attack NC , NC should attack BOT, BOT should attack CFC, CFC should attack HERO, and Hero hit NA , and NA should attack S2N.

But ....
PL will not attack NC as they have a deal.
NC will not attack BOT , as there is a deal
BOT will not attack CFC, as there is a deal
CFC will not attack HERO, as there is a deal
HERO will not attack NA , as there is a deal
NA will not attack S2N, as they are renters.... and there is a deal.

I don't like goons, or blooobs, but why every one see only that Goons are the issue.

Why N3 will not attack PL .... becasue they have deal
Why PL don't camp NA ... as there is a deal

Every one is guilty.
If someone is able to change something in current situation is not CFC , but NC and PL.

PL can make deal with CFC invalid , just strike some CFC space using supers.
NC can make their deal with PL not valid by attacking PL space .... or they might hit CFC space ( something they are saying from ages).

Many smaller groups will join.
This could be the final war for this game.
Big blocks will fall apart during this war, or we get one group that will control whole nullsec - so in this case it will be end of eve .
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#696 - 2014-10-01 14:04:00 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


Then if they are worthless why keep them to begin with?


Because we need them for when the are not worthless. It costs us damn near nothing in sov bills and are an asset despite being near worthless to line members.
DeadDuck
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#697 - 2014-10-01 14:10:15 UTC
TBH the blame on the current state of the game is on both parts:

1) CCP to blame on current sov mechanics and introducing and permiting to expand the 0.0 game "Super Caps Online";
2) The players with idiotic agreements, such as the "Botlord agreements" to keep their lawns quite, and to benefitiate, from the huge tons of isks earned in the ways they please.

So since the 0.0 players seem to not being able to get out of theis stagnant situation that their leadership condemned them, they turn on CCP to do something about it, including some of the same leaders that signed and maintain the stupid agreements Shocked

Most probably CCP will do something that will pretty much change 0.0 game. They have to, or their game will die. After all it's the 0.0 battles that sell the game out there not the friendly Empire environment.

TBH, to deal with the current 0.0 joke that we live in, CCP has to make a total revamp of the roles performed by super caps or by the boost of some of existing ships in order to counter the absurd power the super caps present when working in huge groups. Probably both.

The power projection limitation seems to be a good idea, like the end of EW invulnerability seems also a good idead, but TBH CCP has to go further, besides enhancing a new sov mechanic, it has to boost Dreads the existing ship with potentai to really hurt the super cap blobs. They can do it by simply eliminating the 0 m/s when a Dread is in siege and allowing on the same type the remote repping. Siege will pretty much be the boost the ship fire power, but still preventing the ship from jumping out.

With this small tweak, the small, medium enthities, will have a weapon to fight the super cap blobs, they can have a chance since their cap fleets will have the power to hurt super cap fleets.



Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#698 - 2014-10-01 14:15:34 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:

Because CCP intended everyone to agree on treaties with everyone else because they are scared.

You know what.

You are right .
PL should attack NC , NC should attack BOT, BOT should attack CFC, CFC should attack HERO, and Hero hit NA , and NA should attack S2N.

But ....
PL will not attack NC as they have a deal.
NC will not attack BOT , as there is a deal
BOT will not attack CFC, as there is a deal
CFC will not attack HERO, as there is a deal
HERO will not attack NA , as there is a deal
NA will not attack S2N, as they are renters.... and there is a deal.

I don't like goons, or blooobs, but why every one see only that Goons are the issue.

Why N3 will not attack PL .... becasue they have deal
Why PL don't camp NA ... as there is a deal

Every one is guilty.
If someone is able to change something in current situation is not CFC , but NC and PL.

PL can make deal with CFC invalid , just strike some CFC space using supers.
NC can make their deal with PL not valid by attacking PL space .... or they might hit CFC space ( something they are saying from ages).

Many smaller groups will join.
This could be the final war for this game.
Big blocks will fall apart during this war, or we get one group that will control whole nullsec - so in this case it will be end of eve .


More like it's giving CFC exactly what they want, easy targets. Because we all know how they cry when something doesn't go their way.

CFC crying is the game. Oh, no, intercepters blew up my ship, NERF.

And you expect them to attack anyone that has a chance?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#699 - 2014-10-01 14:16:36 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:

With this small tweak, the small, medium enthities, will have a weapon to fight the super cap blobs, they can have a chance since their cap fleets will have the power to hurt super cap fleets.





The way to nerf cap fleets is to remove their ability to be invincible death machines, key to this is dealing with the thing that makes them so hard to kill, RR.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#700 - 2014-10-01 14:22:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DeadDuck wrote:

With this small tweak, the small, medium enthities, will have a weapon to fight the super cap blobs, they can have a chance since their cap fleets will have the power to hurt super cap fleets.





The way to nerf cap fleets is to remove their ability to be invincible death machines, key to this is dealing with the thing that makes them so hard to kill, RR.


Yep. Reps are the problem with a lot of the game. Infinitely scalable, infinitely sustainable, and more powerful per single pilot than a dps ship (as a general rule anyway).

They are why a smaller can only evade or whelp against a large fleet.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.