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T2-T3mining ships
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Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-10-01 02:05:12 UTC
Sorila Renne wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Sorila Renne wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
lol T3 mining ship.


What'd be wrong with a T3 mining ship? I think it's really sad that the progression for the most basic of professions is so short compared to EVERY other profession in Eve. Even the Capital progression turns from Mining ship to command ships which just end up squatting in POS's until they have the unfortunate fate of getting bumped out. Even when you look at Exhumers compared to mining barges, the price difference is NOT in line with the difference in ship bonuses.


Your progression is into a Rorqual. That is surely significant enough.


Except as I mentioned earlier, the orca and the Rorqual are command ships, not mining ships. Command ships for Mining vessels unlike command ships for combat vessels cannot also take part in the activity that they boost, IE command combat ships can take part in combat, but Rorqual's or Orca's can't mine & boost.

Wrong.. Orcas and Rorqs can mine... with mining drones :)
Kizmin Rider
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-10-01 02:34:14 UTC
Don't worry. When off grid mining boosts are finally removed, Rorquals and Orca's will certainly take part in the action
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-10-01 06:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Celthric Kanerian
We already got 4 T2 mining ship, a capital mining ship and a booster mining ship... Plus we got the tier 1 versions as well which are quite good compared to the difference between combat T1 and T2 ships.

The cloak effect on the Prospect is pretty awesome, especially for quiet wormhole mining, but I feel it's a little overkill... Cloaking device on a mining ship... But that's just me.
Chinwe Rhei
Syn Interstellar
#24 - 2014-10-01 06:31:14 UTC
We already got 3 t2 mining barges and a t2 mining frigate, i think that's plenty.
I don't think there needs to be a t3 one, frankly it's just ganker bait and t3 ships in general were a terrible ideea, because they reduce the diversity of ships flown and the variety of tactics employed with one configurable "jack of all trades".
Dave Stark
#25 - 2014-10-01 07:05:57 UTC
Kizmin Rider wrote:
Don't worry. When off grid mining boosts are finally removed, Rorquals and Orca's will certainly take part in the action


orcas might, rorquals won't.

the difference in boosts vs the difference in value simply isn't worth using rorqual boosts. even more so in it's current ****** "sitting duck" iteration.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#26 - 2014-10-01 07:39:07 UTC
a simple mining T3 subsystem should solve missing T3 ships

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#27 - 2014-10-01 07:55:34 UTC
There are several subsystems missing from the line-up originally unveiled at FanFest. Two of those would make T3 mining a reality.
A mining laser sub - let's say 4 possible turret Hardpoints and a yield bonus for them - 30% per level perhaps? (equivalent to 10 mining lasers, a little better than old style Battleship mining).
A Cargo sub - I believe that they have already shown art assets for the Caldari one at least - given the potential punch of a T3 with a cargo sub, not to mention the potential for nullification and cloaks it probably can't be larger than about 5k m3...
Dave Stark
#28 - 2014-10-01 08:15:15 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
There are several subsystems missing from the line-up originally unveiled at FanFest. Two of those would make T3 mining a reality.
A mining laser sub - let's say 4 possible turret Hardpoints and a yield bonus for them - 30% per level perhaps? (equivalent to 10 mining lasers, a little better than old style Battleship mining).
A Cargo sub - I believe that they have already shown art assets for the Caldari one at least - given the potential punch of a T3 with a cargo sub, not to mention the potential for nullification and cloaks it probably can't be larger than about 5k m3...


5k m3 would be more than enough for a mining ship. especially if you're using low yield fast cycle time miner IIs rather than strip miners.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#29 - 2014-10-01 12:16:40 UTC
The fact of the matter is that Mining as an activity is a small part of Eve and it already has the appropriate ships for the job covered. Anything they add would just be a more efficient mining ship which is just pointless.

If you want to progress from the task of mining you can look into POS management or even running a corp of miners and handling the business end.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-10-01 12:19:13 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
...handling the business end.


Phrasing.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Solecist Project
#31 - 2014-10-01 12:27:46 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
The fact of the matter is that Mining as an activity is a small part of Eve and it already has the appropriate ships for the job covered. Anything they add would just be a more efficient mining ship which is just pointless.

If you want to progress from the task of mining you can look into POS management or even running a corp of miners and handling the business end.

lol the miners...

MORE EFFICIENT MINING YAY!!!


... a week passes ...



WTF CCP MINERAL PRICES ARE TOO LOW!!!!!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-10-01 12:51:48 UTC
simple then mining would be too prosperous.

if you can have mining t3s you should also get buffed belt rats that scram and ewar.

otherwise you wont even need that t3 tank.

everything needs to be in balance.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#33 - 2014-10-01 13:02:18 UTC
Mining as of now is in a good position. Ship wise.

You have a ship for your choice of mining method. with appropriate yield / tank / hold. It is kinda silly to introduce new ships, that would have no benefit other than greater selection.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#34 - 2014-10-01 13:21:52 UTC
Just introduce Capital Mining Lasers (for dreads) and Heavy Mining Drones (for carriers and supa's).

Chribba's gotta mine that veld, baby.

DAT VELD

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#35 - 2014-10-01 13:43:40 UTC
t3 mining ships would be awesome, can you imagine the tears when they lose SP because of a gank?

Evil RatKid
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-10-01 13:45:31 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
t3 mining ships would be awesome, can you imagine the tears when they lose SP because of a gank?


Personally, I have no stake in T3s in general. It's a bit too complicated for me. Hell, even getting a trampoline to work right is complicated. The one I got yesterday has absolutely no bounciness to it. Plus, I'm pretty sure I have the legs on the wrong way round.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#37 - 2014-10-01 16:42:43 UTC
Sorila Renne wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
lol T3 mining ship.


What'd be wrong with a T3 mining ship? I think it's really sad that the progression for the most basic of professions is so short compared to EVERY other profession in Eve. Even the Capital progression turns from Mining ship to command ships which just end up squatting in POS's until they have the unfortunate fate of getting bumped out. Even when you look at Exhumers compared to mining barges, the price difference is NOT in line with the difference in ship bonuses.


Mining isn't a profession. Industry is a profession. Your next step after exhumers is to start making stuff with all that ore.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#38 - 2014-10-01 23:34:40 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Based on some of the posts, do people not realize where the ammo, ships, modules, etc. found for sale on the market come from? Do they honestly think that their buying of equipment off the market is the same as buying gear from an NPC vendor?


Are you implying that a few miners in high sec getting ganked will somehow adversely affect the market to the point of total collapse? Cuz, people do mine in low and null you know, we don't need you as much as you think we do. And there are so many high sec miners, ganking them all is way too much effort.


Both a gross assumption toward what I said (no I'm not implying that) and a major downplay in the face of reality (more than just "a few" miners get ganked). You sound as if the number of miners ganked per day is in the single digits when the truth is that closer to dozens of miners get ganked daily. Yet the number is governed by two major factors.

1. Player attitude
2. Game mechanics.

The first has to do with simply the number of players who actively gank on a regular bases. The more people get into it, the more of it that gets done. The second has to do with the minimum number of gankers it takes to successfully gank. This, of course, depends on a number of factors such as the ship being ganked, system sec status (CONCORD response time), ship type used to gank, etc. The less ships it takes, the more ganks will take place.

My post was an indirect response to WASPY69's post with his statement "I hate the dirty miners as much as the next person". However, I didn't want to quote him specifically because that statement basically states the general attitude of the forum. Which is 'pro gank' and 'grrr mining'.

So what I am implying is that this is very much a **** poor attitude to have. In a sand box game such as EvE, where everything is player made, mining and manufacturing is the back bone. I believed I have demonstrated in posts to have enough of an in-depth knowledge of markets to say what I'm about to say with a fair amount of authority on the matter.

The excuse that gankers give wrt generating market demand is a very shallow one. Especially when it is followed up with the excuse that you gave, since the two are directly related. Generating more demand is not necessarily a good thing for a market. It arbitrarily inflates prices. When that increase in ship demand comes from making industry more hazardous (costly and/or time consuming), then this compounds the inflation. Then there is the fact that only key ships are typically used in the ganking process, which creates a market inflation imbalance. The person who suffers most are the new players that CCP is doing their best to help out while, at the same time, not turning EvE into the brainless hand holding game other MMOs tend to be. Gankers will often gank with ganking alts while their mains make the isk (often through PvE hypocritically enough). New players train into the next class ship, pick one they like to use but then pick one of the other ones because the one they would like to use is the gank ship FotM and so it sits ~10 - 20% higher in price.


So, while due to the two major factors stated above, ganking and its impact is small, but I'm reminded of one of the principles of economics.

"Rational people think at the margin"

A small impact is still an impact. If letting indy do its thing in peace meant I save just .01 isk per cruise missile, then I am better off.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-10-01 23:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Angeal MacNova wrote:
I believed I have demonstrated in posts to have enough of an in-depth knowledge of markets to say what I'm about to say with a fair amount of authority on the matter.


No, you haven't, you're usually frothing at the mouth too much to make any sense out of it.

For the record, all of my ships and ammo come from industry conducted in a well-guarded lowsec pocket. A lot of the mining for my own stuff is done by me, on an alt. The rest is done by allies in the pocket who I buy the minerals off. I literally have no need of any other miners.

Except for target practice of course, but that's less of a need and more of an alternative to ship spinning for me.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Sorila Renne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-10-02 00:20:43 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
We already got 4 T2 mining ship, a capital mining ship and a booster mining ship... Plus we got the tier 1 versions as well which are quite good compared to the difference between combat T1 and T2 ships.

The cloak effect on the Prospect is pretty awesome, especially for quiet wormhole mining, but I feel it's a little overkill... Cloaking device on a mining ship... But that's just me.


A capital mining ship? The only capital Ore ships that are out there are the Orca and Rorqual which are command ships, not mining ships. I understand if T3 is not viable, but the progression is still poor. Those who point out there are T2 mining barges you are correct, there are....and the price difference between them and T1 is so out of whack. You will likely lose your T2 mining barge LONG before you've paid off the difference in price between the T1 and T2 barges. The differences between the hulls are not enough to warrant the difference in price in my opinion.
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