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The Null Deal: A Statement from Sovereign Nullsec

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JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#641 - 2014-10-01 11:38:58 UTC  |  Edited by: JIeoH Mocc
baltec1 wrote:
JIeoH Mocc wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Regatto wrote:


All of these great Sov leaders were able to sign this open letter to CCP. I wonder why, they didn't just help themselfs and fix the game they broke. Why they didn't sign simple deal that would bring pvp and diversity back to eve


Because they didn't break the game, they simply did what the mechanics dictated. Nobody is going to shoot themselves in both feet.


Bull*excrement*.
You keep blaming that on the mechanics, as if there's ANY set of applicable rules that can simultaneously discourage your kind from bunching up and carebearing in peace forever (all the while whining about no content) AND keep the game a sandbox.



Tell me, if you had access to a fleet that is impossible for anyone else to kill would you not use it?


If I would, I'd be having another corp/alliance ticker right now, don't you think?
What does the mechanics have to do with you wanting an easy life-style? At least don't be a hypocrite.
Any set of enforceable rules will succumb to that desire of yours to bunch up and "winwinwin", be it by dropping the node with a "thousand of megathrons(c)", having b0tl0rds of this kind or another, blobbing with titans and what not.

That's not something CCP CAN possibly fix. They can stir the pot a bit, but once everything settles into a steady state - that attitude of "If you had access to ..." will prevail. Always.

I hope they recognize it, and I hope that it settles in your head as well.
KatanTharkay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#642 - 2014-10-01 11:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: KatanTharkay
baltec1 wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Regatto wrote:


All of these great Sov leaders were able to sign this open letter to CCP. I wonder why, they didn't just help themselfs and fix the game they broke. Why they didn't sign simple deal that would bring pvp and diversity back to eve


Because they didn't break the game, they simply did what the mechanics dictated. Nobody is going to shoot themselves in both feet.

Why not give it a try, discuss this among yourselves and see what can be done. You guys already have 2 agreements, BOTLORD and NullSec Manifesto. It has more chances to do something good for EVE rather than asking CCP to do it. It's a sandbox, it's up to the players to make the game fun or boring.


We would wind up defeated and you would be bitching at a new empire to do the same. You don't fix the game by asking people to not use all of the tools at their disposal.

So no matter what, you want to be safe. Sadly, safety made this game boring (hello BOTLRD accord). Well, I guess the only hope is that CCP will step in and make things unsafe for everybody, cause your proposal sure doesn't do that.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#643 - 2014-10-01 11:46:17 UTC
KatanTharkay wrote:

So no matter what, you want to be safe. Sadly, safety made this game boring. Well, I guess the only hope is that CCP will step in and make things unsafe for everybody, cause your proposal doesn't do that.


We are literally asking CCP to nerf our empires and our capabilities to wage war and you think we want to be safe...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#644 - 2014-10-01 11:50:35 UTC
JIeoH Mocc wrote:


If I would, I'd be having another corp/alliance ticker right now, don't you think?
What does the mechanics have to do with you wanting an easy life-style? At least don't be a hypocrite.
Any set of enforceable rules will succumb to that desire of yours to bunch up and "winwinwin", be it by dropping the node with a "thousand of megathrons(c)", having b0tl0rds of this kind or another, blobbing with titans and what not.

That's not something CCP CAN possibly fix. They can stir the pot a bit, but once everything settles into a steady state - that attitude of "If you had access to ..." will prevail. Always.

I hope they recognize it, and I hope that it settles in your head as well.


Given that I am also calling for our fleets to stop being unkillable I would say I understand. We are trying to get CCP to make changes that we cannot abuse.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#645 - 2014-10-01 11:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: JIeoH Mocc
baltec1 wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:

So no matter what, you want to be safe. Sadly, safety made this game boring. Well, I guess the only hope is that CCP will step in and make things unsafe for everybody, cause your proposal doesn't do that.


We are literally asking CCP to nerf our empires and our capabilities to wage war and you think we want to be safe...



You see, you either drink that cool-aid willingly, or troll, or ... not the sharpest pencil in the pencil box.
Because having them indestructible NPC stations in every sov. region is "literally asking CCP for a nerf". Right.
While it probably will cause some small PvP groups to jump in and farm you/your renters, it actually amplifies the ability of the powerblocks to wage war, specially if you consider the possibly incoming power projection changes.
Nothing like having an invulnerable staging system in every region, so that events like B-R5 will never happen again.
So yeah, that proposal is something along the lines of
- secure our the holdings currently held by the blue doughnut against future changes (destructible stations, power projection, cap nerfs)
- Add some non-intimidating PvP content in the form of small groups who harass the holders/renters without presenting a real risk
- Please CCP, we will keep bluing each other and crying out of boredom - you got to help us overcome us!

GJ, high five o/

baltec1 wrote:

Given that I am also calling for our fleets to stop being unkillable I would say I understand. We are trying to get CCP to make changes that we cannot abuse.


Right, ahah, that's one example of a one crooked logic, mate. Good luck with that.
Your unkillable fleets have such little, tiny balls, that they are literally calling for CCP to create more content for them
Now with them being unkillable, wouldn't you think they'd go and kill everything on their way?
Guess not, huh. Rather rent and *****, and write letters to CCP. About getting NEW things you can abuse. Rinse and repeat.
Anthar Thebess
#646 - 2014-10-01 11:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:

If CCP keeps their word on serious nerfs to Power Projection within the coming weeks.

We will see a serious shift in Nullsec power...


What nerfs?
Only statement i got is that you cannot move so easily in capital feets around the eve.

Yes this is good , but without other changes it is worthless.
As long as you can move capitals and fleets between regions using JB , Titan bridges or jump drives this is pointless.

Currently big blocks earn Trilions of isk.

1 fitted carrier cost around 2bil - this give us around 7 baltecs?

So simple "fix" to this "nerf"
Spend some of those ISK to make ship catches in some remote locations around eve space.

If something is going on there - put people in ceptors , and reship there to proper doctrine.

Until fleets will have to travel by gates again (to the battle) , nothing will change.

Even those 5 jumps by gates makes every thing very complicated , as even with smaller force you can camp and wipe out much bigger fleet.
Just bubble this gate and put 3 bomber wings in proper spots.


EDIT :
As i stated before.
Gates to npc space - rather than new npc stations, and those gates should never lead to station system itself, but 1-2 jumps away.

What more make those gate S size.
So only cruisers and smaller ships can pass.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
KatanTharkay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#647 - 2014-10-01 11:56:30 UTC  |  Edited by: KatanTharkay
baltec1 wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:

So no matter what, you want to be safe. Sadly, safety made this game boring. Well, I guess the only hope is that CCP will step in and make things unsafe for everybody, cause your proposal doesn't do that.


We are literally asking CCP to nerf our empires and our capabilities to wage war and you think we want to be safe...



this:
baltec1 wrote:
We would wind up defeated ...

You might consider it a nerf, but still safe.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#648 - 2014-10-01 12:06:02 UTC
KatanTharkay wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:

So no matter what, you want to be safe. Sadly, safety made this game boring. Well, I guess the only hope is that CCP will step in and make things unsafe for everybody, cause your proposal doesn't do that.


We are literally asking CCP to nerf our empires and our capabilities to wage war and you think we want to be safe...



this:
baltec1 wrote:
We would wind up defeated ...

You might consider it a nerf, but still safe.


Context, it helps.

Under the current mechanics yes, if we give up our unkillable fleets and dump most of our sov someone else will take it all and we will get crushed and we will be back to where we are today.

Take the unbeatable fleets away from everyone and put in mechanics that makes taking and holding half of EVE impossible and you fix the problem.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#649 - 2014-10-01 12:09:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Take the unbeatable fleets away from everyone and put in mechanics that makes taking and holding half of EVE impossible and you fix the problem.


How's that related to the "letter" at hand, signed by all the stars of our blue doughnut and then some?
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#650 - 2014-10-01 12:09:47 UTC
Sally Hermoine wrote:
No disrespect but Gevlon is a bumbling idiot every idea/post he has is just an extension of the mad mans imagination.

I like the changes, not sure about NPC Nullsec being in place everywhere, they would just allow power projection with the major coalitions who will simply select certain ones as lilly pad Cyno zones.

Also the occupation idea is great everyone wins Blocs get nerfed in size renters can still rent but dont need multiple systems and new forces can try and take some space , assuming they don't get blobbed out which will probably happen but lifes not meant to be easy right? BUT i would not like a one system to become Uber amazing in its farming ability just because there a gazillion people working the farms, that would not be good for nullsec.

Also can we have player built stargate Turrets that would be so cool



NPC null points in every region would also give jump clone points. They only need to stage equipment.

With all the capitals they have been sitting back amassing being the biggest carebear organizations in the game, there is likely little you can do at this point.

Since everyone is content with being sheep, this is the game.
Anthar Thebess
#651 - 2014-10-01 12:10:34 UTC
Simply - new rules will be for all the same.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#652 - 2014-10-01 12:11:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:

So no matter what, you want to be safe. Sadly, safety made this game boring. Well, I guess the only hope is that CCP will step in and make things unsafe for everybody, cause your proposal doesn't do that.


We are literally asking CCP to nerf our empires and our capabilities to wage war and you think we want to be safe...



Yea, like we believe that, but you keep up with the propaganda stream. That is what you're here for, spamming the forums.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#653 - 2014-10-01 12:20:10 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
[quote=baltec1]
They are stuck outside of null sov because the current mechanics make it impossible for them to be able to do anything against us.
70% of the CFC losses come from non-sov holders, so owning sov isn't a pre-requisite of fighting. My question is, can you point at an organization that isn't killing CFC now and with this suggestion will start killing CFC? Where are they?

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.

The point of fixing sovereignty is not conformity for your Grr Goons narrative, nobody is going to hand you out a magic bullet or do your work for you, especially not CCP. You should not expect CCP to change the game according to what you want, just because you personally cannot reach that point in game. Why should CCP personally bail you out?

'Little guys' do not hate it, they are behind this initiative. 90% of null, not just sov empires, have found a common ground, and came up with this. Anyone else objecting are hard to take seriously because of the tinfoil on their heads and their hilarious inability to represent a viable alternative suggestion.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


Well, 99% of null is blue, so who else is going to attack you.

Pretty simple.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#654 - 2014-10-01 12:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
baltec1 wrote:
Regatto wrote:


All of these great Sov leaders were able to sign this open letter to CCP. I wonder why, they didn't just help themselfs and fix the game they broke. Why they didn't sign simple deal that would bring pvp and diversity back to eve


Because they didn't break the game, they simply did what the mechanics dictated. Nobody is going to shoot themselves in both feet.

When did "Non-aggression Pacts" enter the game?

I believe I missed that Dev blog/patch notes...

...
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#655 - 2014-10-01 12:27:59 UTC
So goon, what happened to the moon goo spin you were trying to feed us?

You couldn't spin it you're way so you had ISD remove all the posts?

You were trying to feed me that moon goo nerf was due to goon and that it was so righteous of you, until i pointed out N3 was going through systems, were taking your moons, move or we will move you by force.

Where is all of that. Well here is you're moon goo job.

https://gfycat.com/GoodnaturedPastelGander

See if ISD will remove it again.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#656 - 2014-10-01 12:30:51 UTC
JIeoH Mocc wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Take the unbeatable fleets away from everyone and put in mechanics that makes taking and holding half of EVE impossible and you fix the problem.


How's that related to the "letter" at hand, signed by all the stars of our blue doughnut and then some?


Because the situation that allows such massive fleets to reign supreme will remain, unless they nerf logi to stop the zero sum fleet fight equation.

Right now, if a smaller fleet goes up against a larger one and cannot break their reps (which is rather likely), the smaller fleet simply should not engage at all.

If they nerf logi so that people actually have a chance to do lasting damage, then smaller forces gain a relevancy that is greater than zero. And not just in sov, but at every level of combat. "Go down fighting" would actually mean something besides just whelping to no effect.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#657 - 2014-10-01 12:39:22 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
JIeoH Mocc wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Take the unbeatable fleets away from everyone and put in mechanics that makes taking and holding half of EVE impossible and you fix the problem.


How's that related to the "letter" at hand, signed by all the stars of our blue doughnut and then some?


Because the situation that allows such massive fleets to reign supreme will remain, unless they nerf logi to stop the zero sum fleet fight equation.

Right now, if a smaller fleet goes up against a larger one and cannot break their reps (which is rather likely), the smaller fleet simply should not engage at all.

If they nerf logi so that people actually have a chance to do lasting damage, then smaller forces gain a relevancy that is greater than zero. And not just in sov, but at every level of combat. "Go down fighting" would actually mean something besides just whelping to no effect.



And that is precisely the reason the letter is self serving. Exactly what you'd expect.
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#658 - 2014-10-01 12:53:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We are literally asking CCP to nerf our empires and our capabilities to wage war and you think we want to be safe...
No, we think you want to be safe because you are literally asking CCP to nerf your empires and your capabilities to wage war.

Treaties weren't enough because mistakes were made and suddenly B-R. You want to nerf yourself physically unable to harm each other, so your status will forever be stabilized. You want to be away from each other and want to feed your pilots with the kills of terribads so they never provoke the other empire.

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#659 - 2014-10-01 12:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We are literally asking CCP to nerf our empires and our capabilities to wage war and you think we want to be safe...
No, we think you want to be safe because you are literally asking CCP to nerf your empires and your capabilities to wage war.

Treaties weren't enough because mistakes were made and suddenly B-R. You want to nerf yourself physically unable to harm each other, so your status will forever be stabilized. You want to be away from each other and want to feed your pilots with the kills of terribads so they never provoke the other empire.


I'm more for this:

http://evenews24.com/2014/10/01/leaks-corebloodbrothers-sends-out-a-internal-statement-about-the-null-deal/

They broke it, they can fix it.

Seems subs are taking a dive, for good reason. Do you want to be sheep?
cpt Niki
Perkone
Caldari State
#660 - 2014-10-01 13:06:51 UTC
Shutdown the API servers!

Yes I'm back again, make the corporation/alliance/coalition management a nightmare.

and to anyone say that API is not a problem I dare them to start not using it.

make people interact with people and then maybe we will have some "falcon" events.