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CCP what did you do to Sleepers?

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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#21 - 2014-10-01 10:44:33 UTC
C4 and upwards doesn't really bother me as I've always thought that should require a team effort, 1-3 might need a bit of tweaking though.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#22 - 2014-10-01 10:46:23 UTC
When exactly was the sleeper RR broken in the first place? Because I remember that when I first did c4 sites it was extremely slow because I could barely break the sleepers' tank in some sites. Two years or so later I again started doing c4 sites and was much, much faster. Is assumed it's because I used a different method and had better skills, but maybe it was just because their RR was now broken...?

.
Blake Nosferatu
Phoenix of the Black Sun
#23 - 2014-10-01 10:57:19 UTC
Well i hope that income balance comes soon or i see alot of players getting to choose between move out of c1 - c4 wh space and play the game a different way or unsub and come back if and when it gets fixed. I know what my choice will be.
dhunpael
#24 - 2014-10-01 11:02:24 UTC  |  Edited by: dhunpael
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.

Quote:
The Mara Paleo Incursion NPC now remote repairs correctly.


The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.



corbexx => there goes all the hard work you've done in listing how long it would take to run a site and in which ships it's possible or not. Seems like you did it all for nothing Ugh

Also: it would have been nice to know this BEFORE the patch. And not the moment that you are trying to run a site.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#25 - 2014-10-01 11:04:05 UTC
Solid gold. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#26 - 2014-10-01 11:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
dhunpael wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.

Quote:
The Mara Paleo Incursion NPC now remote repairs correctly.


The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.



corbexx => there goes all the hard work you've done in listing how long it would take to run a site and in which ships it's possible or not. Seems like you did it all for nothing Ugh

Also: it would have been nice to know this BEFORE the patch. And not the moment that you are trying to run a site.


Whilst information on pre hyperion relationships between sites was valuable, any site where RR is a factor is unfortunately far worse. And hopefully the work has got the message across by now.

It is tragic though to see all the hard work undone so casually, I know EVE online is a game where one can knock down someones sandcastle crafted over months in a moment.

But I did not think the Company intentionally did that too?

Possibly this should be treated the same way as C6 KS connections were treated, the "broken" was considered the new normal.
Otherwise you are totally rebalancing wormhole space "again" for absolutely no benefit and significant downsides.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Marox Calendale
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#27 - 2014-10-01 11:19:37 UTC
Blake Nosferatu wrote:
Well i hope that income balance comes soon or i see alot of players getting to choose between move out of c1 - c4 wh space and play the game a different way or unsub and come back if and when it gets fixed. I know what my choice will be.

And all those players will come back to wh when this balance has happened. It´s just a question how you adapt in the meantime.
Jez Amatin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-10-01 11:23:58 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
When exactly was the sleeper RR broken in the first place? Because I remember that when I first did c4 sites it was extremely slow because I could barely break the sleepers' tank in some sites. Two years or so later I again started doing c4 sites and was much, much faster. Is assumed it's because I used a different method and had better skills, but maybe it was just because their RR was now broken...?


Without wanting to state the obvious, but I'd imagine it was when incursions were introduced and the copy pasted the WH sleeper AI code. Having said that, I'm pretty sure I started out in WH pre incursions and my memory is it was harder to break sleeper tanks.

@Roff - if C4 is meant to be co-op then income will be bad. Even if I agree with what you're saying...
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#29 - 2014-10-01 11:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Terrorfrodo
Yeah, no reason to panic. It seems that CCP now does something for wormholes every patch, and eventually they'll rebalance the sites too. Stronger RR in c4+ makes sense in general because those classes were always meant for groups where RR is much less of a factor. If and when c1-3 is buffed to become attractive for solo pve again, it will be okay.

edit:
Jez Amatin wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
When exactly was the sleeper RR broken in the first place? Because I remember that when I first did c4 sites it was extremely slow because I could barely break the sleepers' tank in some sites. Two years or so later I again started doing c4 sites and was much, much faster. Is assumed it's because I used a different method and had better skills, but maybe it was just because their RR was now broken...?


Without wanting to state the obvious, but I'd imagine it was when incursions were introduced and the copy pasted the WH sleeper AI code.

Maybe, although it doesn't really make sense because I remember that Incursion NPC mentioned in the patch notes did RR like crazy when Incursions came out. Why would it break the sleeper RR when it actually could RR so well? Probably they nerfed the Incursion RR later and that also broke sleeper RR? (I tried Incursions only a few times when they were new.)

.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#30 - 2014-10-01 11:25:04 UTC
Marox Calendale wrote:
Blake Nosferatu wrote:
Well i hope that income balance comes soon or i see alot of players getting to choose between move out of c1 - c4 wh space and play the game a different way or unsub and come back if and when it gets fixed. I know what my choice will be.

And all those players will come back to wh when this balance has happened. It´s just a question how you adapt in the meantime.



I am touched with your display of optimism and naivety it is lovely to see no matter how delusional.

Once players have left, they have left.
It will take a hell of a lot more than a bit of tweaking to get them to resubscribe.

It is reckoned to be a hundred times more effective to retain customers than replace them.

Funny that CCP don't seem to ever learn that......

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-10-01 11:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Duranin
Marox Calendale wrote:
And all those players will come back to wh when this balance has happened. It´s just a question how you adapt in the meantime.

You still think they will fix this someday?

Hyperion release was over a month ago... and what did they do to address the concerns that the players expressed?
No "yes, there might be an issue" or "we'll look into that" but instead more nerfs to w-space.

Just look at how Fozzie responded to this thread: No mention that they might look into the implications this has for w-space or even change anything about it - he just states that the nerf is intended. Hell, corbexx had to literally drag him in here to at least tell us that they nerfed w-space again.

Don't be illusional. CCP doesn't give a sh*t about w-space. There won't be any fix for this mess.
Ageudum
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-10-01 12:03:27 UTC
Nox52 wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For some reason the patch note for this change incorrectly limits itself to mentioning the Mara Paleos.

Quote:
The Mara Paleo Incursion NPC now remote repairs correctly.


The issue that had been breaking the remote reps in incursions was also breaking the remote reps from sleeper NPCs. For the past while sleepers have not been applying any of their remote reps (you were only seeing their local reps). They are now once again working at original spec.


Yeah, how about taking a balancing pass on the sites in light of their increased difficulty now.


Given how CCP has proved their ability to "balance" wormholes in the past, are you really sure you want them to give wormhole sites a balance pass now that they've been "fixed"?

I really hope that the change in time that it takes to run a site drastically affects the prices of nanoribbons, preferably in the direction of up.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-10-01 12:20:59 UTC
Rroff wrote:
C4 and upwards doesn't really bother me as I've always thought that should require a team effort, 1-3 might need a bit of tweaking though.



It's been awhile since I ran C1-3 sites, but IIRC sleeper RR doesn't become very prevalent until C4+
Winthorp
#34 - 2014-10-01 12:24:37 UTC
For C5/6 i see this as an irritation that will be overcome but for the people running sites in C1-4 some sites are just going to become extra painful to run to the point they will have to field more ships or upsize ship choices for NO EXTRA reward in an area of WH space that is already sub par in ISK reward/effort/risk.

I really hope CCP would start looking at implications for changes before "fixing" things.
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-10-01 12:32:56 UTC
haha wormholers got screwed

goback2highsec and get in line to run incursions with everyone else you poors
Ageudum
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-10-01 12:35:11 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
haha wormholers got screwed

goback2highsec and get in line to run incursions with everyone else you poors


I was under the impression that nobody was allowed to run highsec incursions anymore?

Something about "scooping loot" and "DDoS attack" and "ISN is worse than cancer"?
Alundil
Rolled Out
#37 - 2014-10-01 13:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Winthorp wrote:
For C5/6 i see this as an irritation that will be overcome but for the people running sites in C1-4 some sites are just going to become extra painful to run to the point they will have to field more ships or upsize ship choices for NO EXTRA reward in an area of WH space that is already sub par in ISK reward/effort/risk.

I really hope CCP would start looking at implications for changes before "fixing" things.

Basically, that is the issue. Wspace is bleeding players to 00 and incursions in hs as it is. Reducing the ability to recoup ship loss is going to further worsen this.

I'm right behind you
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-10-01 13:13:23 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
For C5/6 i see this as an irritation that will be overcome but for the people running sites in C1-4 some sites are just going to become extra painful to run to the point they will have to field more ships or upsize ship choices for NO EXTRA reward in an area of WH space that is already sub par in ISK reward/effort/risk.

I really hope CCP would start looking at implications for changes before "fixing" things.



Like I just said above, while I can understand everyone's frustration at this change, it helps to be accurate in the complaints

C1-C2 sites have no RR
C3 sites have very minimal RR. Even before it was broken it was manageable, as you either have 1 RR BS in a final wave (just kill it first) or a couple RR frigates/cruisers which can be knocked down
C4 sites, yea they are gonna be even more annoying given not only their significant increase in RR over C3 and long ranges.
C5-C6- Never ran them, but considering threads like "site running like a baws" it seemed like maybe they were a little too easy without RR?

Y Vern
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#39 - 2014-10-01 13:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Y Vern
i can't make 900m/hr running escalations anymore :( down to 800m/hr EvilEvilEvil

it became so dangerous after the last changes too, where basically no one who still lives in wormholes will put in the effort to roll them looking for people site running Shocked

c1-c4 need some help though god damn lol
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#40 - 2014-10-01 13:20:36 UTC
Oh look, goontrolls wandered in here again begging for attention.

About this fix screwing over lowerclasses, correct me if I am wrong but isn´t there only more than one BS preserver in the harder c3 radar and two c4 sites. Only one Preserver per wave just tells you what to shoot first.