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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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speed up sp gain

First post
Author
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-09-30 14:07:03 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:


Why not. It opens options to fly doctrine with many groups in the game - this opens content.

If a group is going to make combined ops with another group and they decide to go in amarr battleships doctrine. You can fly caldari battleships. This closes Your participation unless You want to go in frig that will do nothing in large scale battle.

Why if I train 1 battleship or cruiser I need to train 3 other just to have option of having fun?

Lets say You want to change corp/aliance - You need to adapt new doctrines.


if you go in a frig because you can't flt the BS you become the tackle ship, if you choose to change corp and therefore doctrine that is currently something you actually have to consider rather than just a throwaway decision and as you say this means you then have to adapt...your choices will and always should have consequences. Also perhaps you should look at the strengths of the caldari BS and see if it can complement the Amarr group in some way rather than just thinking 'I can't go then...'. You may be right that it would be pointless but players should at least think a bit rather than blindly following doctrines.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#42 - 2014-09-30 14:14:44 UTC
Torn on this but overall I say no to the OP's idea.

One of the big attractions to every single person I know that plays EVE is the balance the skills training system brings to all players/characters. A casual player that spends 4 or 5 hours a week in EVE will be at the same place skill points wise after 1 year as a player that spends 3-4 hours a day.
Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#43 - 2014-09-30 14:17:35 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Torn on this but overall I say no to the OP's idea.

One of the big attractions to every single person I know that plays EVE is the balance the skills training system brings to all players/characters. A casual player that spends 4 or 5 hours a week in EVE will be at the same place skill points wise after 1 year as a player that spends 3-4 hours a day.


And speed up wouldn't change that as it would work for all?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-09-30 16:24:01 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Did you ever hear the story of how a sov-holding alliance collapsed because of the actions of a 3 day old newbee?

Did you ever hear the story of the 67924th new player who got bored and ****** off after his trial expired?


The game obviously wasn't for them, who cares about retaining people that don't enjoy the core values of the game?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#45 - 2014-09-30 16:33:44 UTC
The skill system is rather good and doesn't require such a change.

We also do not need or desire the 'I WANT IT NOW' crowd, thank you very much.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Austrene Kanenald
Doomheim
#46 - 2014-09-30 16:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Austrene Kanenald
1 more thing...
Training times are ridiculously small once you've already trained your first of that type. If you've got gunnery supports at iV, to change from an eagle doctrine to a zealot doctrine is simply a matter of Amarr Cruiser V which is like a month and medium energy weapon specialization, which is a few weeks, You also unlock every other t2 caldari cruiser in the process (assuming you have the specialization prereq trained).
I suppose there are also armor skills, but you should have their support (mechanics, hull upgrades) trained anyway and compensation and repair systems IV is a quick train.
Also, you probably won't be hopping between corps/alliances that much, so you shouldn't need to retrain doctrines every month, which is what you make it sound like.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-09-30 16:55:24 UTC
There is already a way to speed up SP gain.

Save up a few bil, buy a character with more skillpoints. Watch the bazaar, sell it for a profit, rinse and repeat. You can easily get a 40 mil SP character in your first year.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#48 - 2014-09-30 16:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: HandelsPharmi
If you need more SP... feel free to contact me on the Char Bazaar.

You can buy a char on the bazaar and everbody will be happy...

CCP, which you bought the PLEX from
the trader on char bazaar, who can keep his training queue running
yourself, cause you can fly any ship you want
and even the Jita trader, who is selling you "purple fitting"
Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2014-09-30 17:04:20 UTC
I don't need it - i have enough sp on my 2 toons after over a year in the game.

But new players can't afford toons.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-09-30 17:20:55 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
But new players can't afford toons.


When provided with good advice they don't need to be able to afford it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#51 - 2014-09-30 17:21:11 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
I don't need it - i have enough sp on my 2 toons after over a year in the game.

But new players can't afford toons.

http://outofcake.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/malcanis-law/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2014-09-30 17:26:56 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
I don't need it - i have enough sp on my 2 toons after over a year in the game.

But new players can't afford toons.
We don't have 'toons' in Eve, we have characters or if you wish chars.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#53 - 2014-10-01 02:18:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
[quote=Donnachadh]Torn on this but overall I say no to the OP's idea.

One of the big attractions to every single person I know that plays EVE is the balance the skills training system brings to all players/characters. A casual player that spends 4 or 5 hours a week in EVE will be at the same place skill points wise after 1 year as a player that spends 3-4 hours a day.

And speed up wouldn't change that as it would work for all?


OK you got me on that one, you make a good point and my post was not well thought out.

Still I say no to the idea because it will have little affect on the new players whose skills train quickly as it is.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#54 - 2014-10-01 04:36:45 UTC
The beauty of EvE is that you can do it all with just one character. It simply takes time.

But I've been thinking if this is such a great thing for EvE in it's current state. The idea of being able to do it all with just one character works well if the intent is one character per player. Something which I think CCP had intended on all those years ago. Unfortunately, if all the players only paid for one account, CCP would go broke. The game pushes players to run multiple accounts. Either by subbing, PLEXing, or supporting the RL purchase of PLEX by buying it in game with isk. It's all geared towards this because CCP depends on it.

With the game supporting the use of multiple characters across multiple accounts and with the ability to train multiple characters on a single account by using PLEX, does the 'one character can do it all' still apply?

Other games allow players to level their characters in very short time spans. I believe it to be too short. Yet I find that with EvE it can drag on too long. I could understand this under the 'one character can do it all' setup. Players prioritize their training, not because of a limit in SP but because of the time it takes.

So what if there was a limit cap and one character could not do it all? CCP could then afford to speed up the training. It should still take a decent amount of time. Days, weeks, months to train up to the next level but it should only take 2 or 3 years tops to reach SP cap. The skills would have to be categorized. Starting with the core skills that is used by everything, then you would have your skills used for combat, trading, corp management, mining, manufacturing, exploration, etc. etc.

A character that specializes would get enough SP to complete the core skills to V, and two of the "profession" skill sets.

Now players will prioritize their training, not because of time, but because training up one thing means you can't train up something else.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#55 - 2014-10-01 06:13:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
30m SP in 3 months. That's 10m per month, or 13850 per hour.

With +3 implants and a perfect remap, the maximum you can get right now is 2520 per hour.

You're asking for a 5.5 times multiplier on skill training speed. Rank 1 skills would take approximately 90 seconds to train level 1. Rank V Titan skills, a 16x multiplier (highest in the game) would take approximately 10 days with +3s and an ideal remap.

There are currently 444,928,000 possible skillpoints in the game (fun fact: 28% of those are in Spaceship Command). With a full set of +5s and a perfect remap at all times, you top out at 2700 SP per hour. That means there's a minimum of 164,788 hours of training in EVE, or about 19 years.

You want to reduce that to only ~3.3 years.

My character currently has 50m SP (ya, I know, she's like 5 years old, I took a lot of breaks). With your proposal, I'd have 275m SP, which would have taken me approximately 14 years at my average training speed thus far.

Basically, the current SP system means that CCP has, at minimum, about 8 more years before anyone could possibly run out of things to train in EVE. With your proposal, those same from-day-one players could currently have all three characters on an account trained 100%, if they pushed.

Basically, no. If you want instant gratification, go play a game designed to cater to that, like the MOBAs you cited. Even they don't really cater to it (League, for example, has its own leveling and gating system). In fact, MMOs as a business are designed around not granting instant gratification. Delayed gratification is how they maintain subscriptions.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#56 - 2014-10-01 07:42:20 UTC
Mag's wrote:
chars

Is just as shudder-worthy tbh, please don't.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#57 - 2014-10-01 08:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Heavypredator Singh
Daenika wrote:
30m SP in 3 months. That's 10m per month, or 13850 per hour.

With +3 implants and a perfect remap, the maximum you can get right now is 2520 per hour.

You're asking for a 5.5 times multiplier on skill training speed. Rank 1 skills would take approximately 90 seconds to train level 1. Rank V Titan skills, a 16x multiplier (highest in the game) would take approximately 10 days with +3s and an ideal remap.

There are currently 444,928,000 possible skillpoints in the game (fun fact: 28% of those are in Spaceship Command). With a full set of +5s and a perfect remap at all times, you top out at 2700 SP per hour. That means there's a minimum of 164,788 hours of training in EVE, or about 19 years.

You want to reduce that to only ~3.3 years.

My character currently has 50m SP (ya, I know, she's like 5 years old, I took a lot of breaks). With your proposal, I'd have 275m SP, which would have taken me approximately 14 years at my average training speed thus far.

Basically, the current SP system means that CCP has, at minimum, about 8 more years before anyone could possibly run out of things to train in EVE. With your proposal, those same from-day-one players could currently have all three characters on an account trained 100%, if they pushed.

Basically, no. If you want instant gratification, go play a game designed to cater to that, like the MOBAs you cited. Even they don't really cater to it (League, for example, has its own leveling and gating system). In fact, MMOs as a business are designed around not granting instant gratification. Delayed gratification is how they maintain subscriptions.


3,3 years is not instant
you still need to buy books and everything else
it just enables You to use available gear/mechanics in game
it is not instant win - you will probably not have titan to fly, you will not win eve by having all sp

If anyone plays this game just because it has something to put in skill queue and not because it is fun to play - it is not realy very smart then - just wasted money.

More playing, less training = better game. For new and older players. You need more ppl playing - counting on alts to carry the game will soon end with few ppl killing their alts because ppl will leave and no new ppl will come when they can play starcitizen without waiting 20 years for the skills.

Max 45000 online at weekend. 20000 on normal days. At least half of it are alts already. This is not good and it is not going to last.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#58 - 2014-10-01 08:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Heavypredator Singh wrote:


3,3 years is not instant
you still need to buy books and everything else
it just enables You to use available gear/mechanics in game
it is not instant win - you will probably not have titan to fly, you will not win eve by having all sp

If anyone plays this game just because it has something to put in skill queue and not because it is fun to play - it is not realy very smart then - just wasted money.

More playing, less training = better game. For new and older players. You need more ppl playing - counting on alts to carry the game will soon end with few ppl killing their alts because ppl will leave and no new ppl will come when they can play starcitizen without waiting 20 years for the skills.

Max 45000 online at weekend. 20000 on normal days. At least half of it are alts already. This is not good and it is not going to last.
Eve is dying post 2,635,547,873,465.

If anything would kill off Eve, it's your idea. Just over 3 years for maxed skills is a game killer, without a doubt.
Plus it's simply not required and the system works great as it stands.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Evora Pirkibo
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-10-01 09:20:11 UTC
No. -1e9000

New players get the training boost for their start, which is substantial.

Although i wouldnt mind the 800k base sp returned to caracter creation.

On a long enough timeline, the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero.

Dave Stark
#60 - 2014-10-01 09:23:33 UTC
buy plex from ccp.
sell plex on the market.
buy character with 30m sp.

et voila.