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Rupture More Cruiser than Stabber?
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Jack Derata
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-09-29 23:01:53 UTC
I am having a dilemma here. A little while ago, I started cross-training this toon into Minmatar ships from Gallente ones in order to land comfortably on a Cynabal.

Now, since I am better at medium projectile weapons than I was at drones - in an Algos - I naturally shifted into Minmatar cruisers. I read the Uni-Wiki site suggestions for both the Stabber and the Rupture, and decided that the Rupture had to be better, based on the statement that the Stabber is more of a "heavy frigate" than an actual cruiser. I was excited to get into a fast Minmatar transversal tanker with chain-cannons, so I didn't take much time to decide.

However, I am finding now that a Rupture is not necessarily more of a cruiser than a Stabber.

Here is a Stabber fit I drew up on NULL-SEC.COM.

[Stabber]

Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Amplifier I
Stasis Webifier II

425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Phased Plasma M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Phased Plasma M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Phased Plasma M
425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I, Phased Plasma M
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Hobgoblin II x5

Now, compare to the UniWiki Rupture.

I see that the Rupture is going to have a longer range, but it lacks the power of the Stabber, even with more low slots. Range doesn't phase the Stabber, though, because it goes nearly a km/hour with an AB and stable cap. Maybe T2 artillery are what tip the favor toward the Rupture since fitting T2 autos on the Stabber would put more strain on the fitting for EHP. However, the Stabber is better for Autocannon users, who are skilling into things like a Vagabond or Cynabal. Besides, with T1 autos and Hobs, the Stabber gets 330dps. Substantially more than what a Rupture pilot would get with similar gunnery skills.

Am I not factoring in an update or something? Or should I just jump into a Stabber right away?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-09-29 23:14:42 UTC
Question before I can help you; are you using this for PvP or PvE?

How did you Veterans start?
Jack Derata
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-09-29 23:27:12 UTC
Now that I look at a null-sec.com uniwiki Rupture, I see that it's probably better, having around 3.7k more EHP, 17 more DPS and 10 km more range. Those are what you sacrifice in order to fly the Stabber, which is a lot faster, and will be cap stable. It may be better for low sec ratting, where having cap, slightly faster align and speed can give you more of an edge on adversaries who will try and point you.

To say a Stabber is not a true cruiser, though, is still wrong IMHO.
Jack Derata
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-09-29 23:27:57 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Question before I can help you; are you using this for PvP or PvE?


Low sec ratting is my application right now.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2014-09-30 03:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Jack Derata wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Question before I can help you; are you using this for PvP or PvE?


Low sec ratting is my application right now.

Ah... might I suggest a semi-PvP fitting then? It will have better odds of survival against the natives when you come across them.

[Stabber, Shield Ratter]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Large Shield Extender II
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5


[Stabber, Armor Ratter]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Stasis Webifier II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Hobgoblin II x5



NOTES:
- The armor version does significantly less damage but has more "staying power" and is a little more "slippery" (the AB means that a scram and/or web won't seal your fate outright).

- The shield version may have CPU issues for those with lacking skills... the armor version will have problems with powergrid. Adjust the fits as needed.

- Faction ammo gives you an added "punch." Do not dismiss it because it is a little expensive.

- If you encounter a PvPer you cannot pin him/her down (because you lack a warp disruptor/scrambler)... but you can potentially drive them off.

- When you get the chance, train into Assault Frigates. They are better suited for low-sec ratting and some PvE related stuff.

How did you Veterans start?
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#6 - 2014-09-30 05:50:48 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Jack Derata wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Question before I can help you; are you using this for PvP or PvE?


Low sec ratting is my application right now.


- When you get the chance, train into Assault Frigates. They are better suited for low-sec ratting and some PvE related stuff.


All of the advice is solid except for this, this definitely used to be the case, but now the best spawns to get in low sec belts are the Mordus spawns and even high dps assault frigates like the Enyo with perfect skills will have trouble breaking even the Mordus Cruiser in a decent amount of time. You should aim for something with at least 600 dps and enough tank to survive the Mordus Battleship dps (not much, around 200dps tank cap stable is plenty to survive the Mordus BS if you're in a Cruiser size ship) as an end game low sec belt ratter. Vexor is the best choice for this IMO, a standard dual rep PvP fit can easily handle all belt rats up to the Mordus Cruiser, the battleship tank will give you some trouble but I've managed to break it in around 12 minutes with Void, some OH and 2x Ogre, 2x Hammer, 1x Hob, I also have almost perfect skills for the Vexor. Anything less and you'll have trouble breaking the tank.

However in a more dedicated belt-ratting fit you can easily handle even the Mordus Battleship, easily avoid gatecamps and also have some exit strategies if you get caught by a PvP ship. Something like this:

[Vexor, Belt Ratter]

Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Prototype Cloaking Device I

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Ogre II x2
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Vespa EC-600 x5

This gets almost 200dps passive recharge with a decent 22k EHP which from my experience should be enough to tank even the Mordus Battleship. It gets 640dps with Void and dps drones cold which is enough to break even the toughest tank on any lowsec rat. Cloak + MWD for the MWD Cloaky trick which if executed properly, will keep you 100% safe in lowsec while travelling through gatecamps. Medium ECM drones for an exit strategy if you get pointed, which combined with your decent EHP gives you a pretty decent chance to warp out. All this for a dirt cheap 30mil, if you manage to find 2 Clone Soldier Transporters this ship will have already paid for itself. On a side note tip, don't forget to look for stations with a security office in lowsec to sell your Clone Soldier Tags above market price. Low-sec belt ratting can give you quite solid income nowadays, Mordus BPC prices are falling though so it seems many have figured that out :(
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-09-30 07:30:24 UTC
Stabber is a good stepping stone if your looking to fly a Cynabal. Flown similarly. However if your looking at belt ratting il have to agree with Dato that the Gal cruisers might be better...

No Worries
Jack Derata
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-09-30 16:23:11 UTC
I could definitely see the Vexor as a better option, but I'm not really going that way at the moment. I know what you mean with the Modru's, though. They have eaten me alive before. Haha

That ASB/DCII Stabber is what I might end up doing. Great DPS, nice tank, good for killing NPCs and gankers alike. I might go AB instead of MWD on it, just for the transversal and in case of points. Armor is interesting because it frees up the mids you'd need for dual prop and still has a nice tank. Lower DPS is a tough pill to swallow, though. It might not be the best option for lowsec ratting because the speed with which you can get loot/pop rats before someone warps in to pop you will ultimately determine your profit.

As far as T2 ships go, I would probably want to get into Minmatar HACs or just eventually rock a sniper Maelmstrom for L4 missions. Considering the skill difference between T1 cruisers and those two, it could go either way.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#9 - 2014-09-30 16:36:14 UTC
the only advantage of the stabber over the rupture is the extra speed, rupture have better fitting stats and a +25% damage over the stabber, rupture also have more slots so you can use them to achieve similar results to the stabber falloff bonus.

stabber`s speed advantage is a big deal if you use the ship for pvp but for pve the rupture its just better, still no one use ruptures anyway because why fly a bad cruiser when you can fly a BC, hurricane will do a much better job for your ratting needs.

BUT if you really want to stay in a cruiser a vexor even with worse skills will do a better job than a minmatar cruiser.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#10 - 2014-09-30 16:41:11 UTC
Jack Derata wrote:
As far as T2 ships go, I would probably want to get into Minmatar HACs or just eventually rock a sniper Maelmstrom for L4 missions. Considering the skill difference between T1 cruisers and those two, it could go either way.


why someone would choose minmatar HACs over gallente HACs?
Ishtar is still freaking OP, deimos it`s pretty good.
Vagabond is decent but it lost it`s edge, munnin it`s still worthless crap.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#11 - 2014-09-30 20:04:43 UTC
You can't really fit arties on a Stabber, which means you'll most likely be brawling with ACs. Combine this with it's speed and agility, and the "heavy frigate" monniker kind of fits, but it is still definitely a cruiser.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#12 - 2014-10-01 13:11:37 UTC
Arty Rups are pretty nasty, and a AC armor Rup can surprise the very hell out of folks.

Different strokes and all that.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#13 - 2014-10-01 17:28:14 UTC
The Stabber only does about 5.2% less damage than the Rupture, while having superior speed and range (and damage application. Which means there is no reason to Rupture unless you need the fittings.

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I invented Tiericide
Klown Walk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-10-01 21:55:14 UTC
Right now stabber is pretty much better than a rupture in every way except tank and close range dps. My stabber for example does 2900 m/s (4k with heat) and 40km falloff.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-10-06 02:46:40 UTC
Get out pyfa and fit up a Scythe Fleet.