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The Null Deal: A Statement from Sovereign Nullsec

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#441 - 2014-09-29 20:25:09 UTC
Ereshgikal wrote:


It is not the renters SOV...it is PL's, CFC's, and NCDOT's SOV.

Our SOV, but the renters live there.

Maintaining it as it is would be easy even if the proposal was implemented. Just continue to own and control the alliances holding the SOV. Anyone not willing to be part of the SOV holding alliance will get dunked by the mother alliance/coalition if they try to gain a foothold. So on that part we probably agree (even though we most likely disagree on the details).

I agree with you. Rental empire will be maintained.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#442 - 2014-09-29 20:30:31 UTC
I do like the idea of an npc station in every region. They would make obvious staging points for any attackers, for certain, but...the potential for some really good pew pew is right there. Wouldn't suprise me that the battle that occurrs on the NPC station would be a very good indicator of what fighting for the rest of the area will be like. If they fix remote repping and carrier/super asshattery, fighting for virtual control of an npc staging system COULD. BE. AWESOME.
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#443 - 2014-09-29 20:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ms Forum Alt
Is it risk aversion or mutually assured destruction?

If there's a balls to the wall war and someone loses, they get disbanded (or lose the advantage for good, due to apex forces making it increasingly hard for them to start a new war and win). But the winning side loses too, because the blue dohnut would be +10, implying a break-up of the original alliance into factions for content or subs and numbers dropping.

Goons could have gone on the offensive after BR. Why didn't they? If the idea was to win and winning is controlling space, they showed how much they wanted to control that space by signing an agreement with the enemy just after destroying a good size of their opponent's force.

So what's all this talk about sov mechanics really about apart from people thinking up ways to make renting more profitable? The game is totally broken and it can't be fixed because player behaviour and the external channels they use to manage and control it cannot itself be controlled by CCP.
Antylus Tyrell
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2014-09-29 20:39:33 UTC
Any suggestion that does not address the broken mechanics around jump bridges and Titan bridging is a suggestion that will have no affect on making sov politics more interesting. All the members of the large coalitions use those tools to their advantage but at the same time are also slaves to it. They cant afford to declare independence because alone they will be crushed.

Take away the ability to zip across the galaxy and back within minutes and we will see members of the big coalitions think... "Hey our alliance leader is kinda a jerk... I want my own kingdom"
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#445 - 2014-09-29 20:44:39 UTC
I have a strange feeling that the nullsec overlords might actually care about this game.


Whatever happens, I hope a reason to care can be instilled in the rest of us.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#446 - 2014-09-29 20:47:37 UTC
Limit fights in system to 1 fleet per side. No broken servers. Actual skill of ppl fighting matters. If coalitions can't limit themselves to have a good time force them :>
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#447 - 2014-09-29 20:48:55 UTC
Ms Forum Alt wrote:

Goons could have gone on the offensive after BR. Why didn't they? If the idea was to win and winning is controlling space, they showed how much they wanted to control that space by signing an agreement with the enemy just after destroying a good size of their opponent's force.


Does grinding through half of nullsecs structures sound fun to you?
Antylus Tyrell
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2014-09-29 20:52:46 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
Limit fights in system to 1 fleet per side. No broken servers. Actual skill of ppl fighting matters. If coalitions can't limit themselves to have a good time force them :>


I hardly think that is the solution, or introducing any mechanic too artificially limit the size of the large powers. It should still be possible to conquer the galaxy and make the blue doughnut, there should just be many ways for smaller groups to stand up and fight it.


Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#449 - 2014-09-29 20:54:45 UTC
[quote=baltec1]




You honestly believe this? I have a decently blinged out Mach, and would struggle to make a consistent 100 mil/hour doing SOE L4s....maybe if you do the really cheap buying mission items beforehand, etc.... you can hit 110, but it is agonizingly boring, and I doubt you can do it for more than a couple hours a day. Now if you multibox you can up that, but it will still hit a hard cap pretty fast.

In Apanake local I see around 100-150 people, on average.....and most of them are lifelong highsec runners, not nullsec alts. This idea that thousands of nullsec alts move to highsec to run L4 missions as their primary income stream is pretty crazy. They may come for incursions (though not lately!), and they may go to NPC null for missions there, etc... but they are certainly not flooding SOE hubs for their primary income. I still think the vast majority of them make their ISK ratting, either in a carrier or in an ishtar....which is going to get you decent income with minimal effort. Supposedly some of the nullsec folks make good isk through trading, manufacturing, etc.... But one thing I can assure is that nullsec is not being funded by L4 mission income!
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#450 - 2014-09-29 20:59:31 UTC
Knerf wrote:
This game was much better when 10 - 20 man gangs ruled the skies


You don't honestly think anything suggested here will lead to that.



Do you?



Seriously?

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#451 - 2014-09-29 22:16:06 UTC
Right people, calling each other names, belittling each other and pouring the whole 'haters gonna hate' trollfest shenanigans out over this thread is not going to get this proposal any more support then it already has. Or any less for that matter if you oppose it.
For or against, post your arguments in a civil manner please!

That said, I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.

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Thread re-opened.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#452 - 2014-09-29 22:38:44 UTC
Lets see what problems we face:

1. tidi, crashes, servers have limits.
2. lack of fights between big alliances due to above.
3. no way for smaller aliances to play sov.
4. lack of new players (with sp to go against established coalitions).

1 and 2 can only be fixed by limiting players in fights - it is limited by tidi and upper server limit already but this limit is broken. There is need to limit this or no good fights will happen. ccp should stop this they talk about our 4000 ppl fight in news - if they knew how it looks they would laugh.

3. smaller aliances may not need sov but you can incorporate them as 3rd party that benefit from sov. They can fight one or other or both sides.

4. fix the game maybe more players will come.

We have winners of sov - create 2/4 factions - not npc factions like in faction warfare. Give coalitions faction status in game that can not be eradicated completly. Allow ppl to join them or act as 3rd party. Make them or allow them to fight - no stupid grinding of structures.

If You see other way of making this game playable then ok. But try to take into account that you need to fix actual problems that you first need to identify.

I see it like above - if You do not agree with my solution then try to acknowledge the problems and find solution for them. Anything less and it will not be good for anyone.

EOT from me - I said what I had to say.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#453 - 2014-09-29 22:39:00 UTC
Wooo back in action.

So, any new tinfoil theories?
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#454 - 2014-09-29 23:12:12 UTC
Just FYI ISD Ezwal they won't promote you to GM based on a quota for locked threads. That was just an inside joke at CCP.
Circumstantial Evidence
#455 - 2014-09-29 23:49:30 UTC
Although not as convenient as current travel, with NPC stations sprinkled liberally through deep null, and jump clones, large alliance fleets could cross the map instantly once a day. The Supers can't follow, but, it would be a powerful force nonetheless. "Dock up ye locals, the Sheriff's come to town!"
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#456 - 2014-09-29 23:56:20 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
Lets see what problems we face:

1. tidi, crashes, servers have limits.
2. lack of fights between big alliances due to above.


No, just no. That is not why there are fewer large scale fights than what you might wish.

Heavypredator Singh wrote:

3. no way for smaller aliances to play sov.


Correct, and the intention of this proposal is to fix that. Whether it is a good way or not is exactly what this thread is about. Welcome to page 23 (or it might be page 24 when I am done).

Heavypredator Singh wrote:

4. lack of new players (with sp to go against established coalitions).

1 and 2 can only be fixed by limiting players in fights - it is limited by tidi and upper server limit already but this limit is broken. There is need to limit this or no good fights will happen. ccp should stop this they talk about our 4000 ppl fight in news - if they knew how it looks they would laugh.

3. smaller aliances may not need sov but you can incorporate them as 3rd party that benefit from sov. They can fight one or other or both sides.


And is that not what SOV-less nullsec entities like your alliance are doing? Are you not SOV-less and benefit from SOV (lots or stupid ratters nearby to kill)?

Heavypredator Singh wrote:

4. fix the game maybe more players will come.


Fix the game? What problem are you referring to? You list this as item 4 that you above have connected to lack of new players...

Heavypredator Singh wrote:

We have winners of sov - create 2/4 factions - not npc factions like in faction warfare. Give coalitions faction status in game that can not be eradicated completly. Allow ppl to join them or act as 3rd party. Make them or allow them to fight - no stupid grinding of structures.


Not sure if you are just trolling at this point or trying out that plastic bag trick I adviced someone else to try out.
HarlyQ
harlyq syrokos investment station
#457 - 2014-09-29 23:57:42 UTC
This looks so exciting all of eve is looking at this idea and going WTF is going to happen in the next year or two.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#458 - 2014-09-30 00:01:41 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have not deleted any of Mr Epeen's posts for a change.

Thread re-opened.



Much appreciated, Ezwal

Mr Epeen Cool
ashley Eoner
#459 - 2014-09-30 00:35:15 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Although not as convenient as current travel, with NPC stations sprinkled liberally through deep null, and jump clones, large alliance fleets could cross the map instantly once a day. The Supers can't follow, but, it would be a powerful force nonetheless. "Dock up ye locals, the Sheriff's come to town!"
One of the first things that popped in my head was this concept. An instant fleet with no real warning appearing anywhere once a day. Just stock up some ships and JCs beforehand and wait.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#460 - 2014-09-30 00:44:15 UTC
TY ISD for cleaning up the thread.


Dear Community,


Look we all love to shovel dung on each other and S*** up threads. Take a step back from the names or parties endorsing this idea and actually consider the merits of it. I know it is easy to jump to conclusions that X , Y & Z are trying to manipulate things to a advantage . However , I and most of the people who are party to this "Statement" are veteran players. We sincerely enjoy this game. We want to see it live on and thrive. Because it has to for everyone to continue to enjoy it. Throughout the history of this game people have gamed the mechanics of the Eve Sandbox squeezing whatever advantages they can. I have done this and will continue to do this. What we are saying in Unison " Hey changes are needed not so much for our benefit but for everyones benefit". So I try to appeal to you gentle community member , bro of bro who might be a Grrr Space Enemy cast aside differences for the moment and join in unison in pushing forward the unified consensus that we as players want change.

♥Manny

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny