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Module Tiericide. Aren't we losing something here?

First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#161 - 2014-09-29 17:48:15 UTC
Bas Hauser wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

EVE is a spaceship game


Ehhh. Understatement of the century...
Did you know there are things like industry, research, marketing? My gf back in 2005 was so obsessed with those things she havent left the station for weeks! Her best ships was a Velator! Based on the numbers it's a 'mods' game rather than a spaceship game, but frankly, it's neither.
For the rocks and pebbles, you are wrong or you missed the course on overview basics: there are things like Veldspar, Kernite, etc, and Strange Rock Formation too! Big smile Rename those as well, don't you think? Like Big Yellow Ore, Small Bluish Ore...
Again, try harder.



We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules.

I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful.

CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#162 - 2014-09-29 17:53:02 UTC
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Your view being as limited as it is may be what's clouding your judgement.


My judgment lol. I'm not the one on here complaining that a game company is doing something wrong for making items in a game sound less ridiculous. This thread should be linked in the urban dictionary as an example of '1st world problems' lol.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#163 - 2014-09-29 17:57:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Your view being as limited as it is may be what's clouding your judgement.


My judgment lol. I'm not the one on here complaining that a game company is doing something wrong for making items in a game sound less ridiculous. This thread should be linked in the urban dictionary as an example of '1st world problems' lol.

Erm, the current names sound sci-fi-y and give the game atmosphere.

Ample, Restrained. Scoped blah blah blah are what sound ridiculous.

This is game-breaking imo.

Another straw on the ******* camel's back.

I can't wait for Fozzie to get fired or poached by Riot.
Bas Hauser
Roidcrackers
#164 - 2014-09-29 17:59:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bas Hauser wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

EVE is a spaceship game


Ehhh. Understatement of the century...
Did you know there are things like industry, research, marketing? My gf back in 2005 was so obsessed with those things she havent left the station for weeks! Her best ships was a Velator! Based on the numbers it's a 'mods' game rather than a spaceship game, but frankly, it's neither.
For the rocks and pebbles, you are wrong or you missed the course on overview basics: there are things like Veldspar, Kernite, etc, and Strange Rock Formation too! Big smile Rename those as well, don't you think? Like Big Yellow Ore, Small Bluish Ore...
Again, try harder.



We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules.

I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful.

CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade.


Calling a yellow rock Veldspar is good you say.
Calling a freaking big spaceship Raven is good you say.
Calling a missile launcher Arbalest Heavy Missile Launher is not good you say.
Would you kindly explain your logic here?
If you think that name is confusing and you are too lazy to compare stuff and remember names, don't you think you are under - or far above - the recommended age to play this game?

Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#165 - 2014-09-29 18:00:42 UTC
*just remembered CCP changed the skill "Armor Honeycombing" to "Armor Layering" so people would not be confused even though they are opposite in real life meaning.
Solecist Project
#166 - 2014-09-29 18:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
This is like explaining how salt tastes like.

People who lack understanding of emotional depth can in no way or form
be explained what they are missing. You are, literally, trying to explain a blind
person how it's like to see.


Some people only exist as half a person,
without them ever being able to live as full.


Argueing with these people is nonsense, really.

What they think is irrelevant. What matters is that we bring the point accross to CCP.
You people are wasting your time talking here with someone who in no way or
form has any relevance to the matter, instead of posting where it actually matters,
or finding another smart way to get the point across.

How about you not-emotionally-shallow people stop this
and rather talk with me about how we can try to change this stupidity?


We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ...
... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread.

But as this is only the first wave of stupid changes,
there's still time for us to do something *actually relevant*.


Instead we all got sucked in into this irrelevant bullshit,
with you people wasting time with irrelevant nonsense talking to people who
*do not matter in regards to a solution*!


Contact me if you actually care ...
... or get lost if all you wanna do is argue about irrelevant opinions anyway.

Because that's not helping in the slightest!


o7

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Bas Hauser
Roidcrackers
#167 - 2014-09-29 18:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bas Hauser
Solecist Project wrote:

We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ...
... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread.


If you are talking about the dev blog thread thats just as pontless as this one.
Oceanus will be deplyed no matter what, and we gonna have a couple of weeks till next patch (nov 4) to let our voices heard on the matter of ****** module names. Until then it's just a street brawl.

This:
"CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far.

We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming.
I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization should somehow be a requirement to play EVE. It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable.
However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns. Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon.

Also, if you've read the patch notes or dev blog today you'll have seen that we made an adjustment to the Restrained Cap Flux Coil stats. We had some wires crossed internally and thanks to your feedback we've cleared up the erroneous stats. The Restrained Cap Flux Coil will indeed have reduced drawback instead of increased drawback. It will have a capacitor pool penalty of -10% and a recharge speed bonus of 28%.

Thanks."


Period.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#168 - 2014-09-29 18:21:14 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
This is like explaining how salt tastes like.

People who lack understanding of emotional depth can in no way or form
be explained what they are missing. You are, literally, trying to explain a blind
person how it's like to see.


Some people only exist as half a person,
without them ever being able to live as full.


Argueing with these people is nonsense, really.

What they think is irrelevant. What matters is that we bring the point accross to CCP.
You people are wasting your time talking here with someone who in no way or
form has any relevance to the matter, instead of posting where it actually matters,
or finding another smart way to get the point across.

How about you not-emotionally-shallow people stop this
and rather talk with me about how we can try to change this stupidity?


We already lost the fight anyway, as Oceanus hits tomorrow ...
... and barely anyone posted in the relevant thread.

But as this is only the first wave of stupid changes,
there's still time for us to do something *actually relevant*.


Instead we all got sucked in into this irrelevant bullshit,
with you people wasting time with irrelevant nonsense talking to people who
*do not matter in regards to a solution*!


Contact me if you actually care ...
... or get lost if all you wanna do is argue about irrelevant opinions anyway.

Because that's not helping in the slightest!


o7

This is GD, so to be expected. I posted in the proper thread a week ago, and guess what, no trolls, no Jenn, just everyone saying the new changes suck not only because of the awful names, but also because it doesn't even accomplish the objectives of tiericide, as meta 0 modules still suck and have no purpose.

Literally EVERYONE is saying these changes suck except for the special snowflake Jenn.
Solecist Project
#169 - 2014-09-29 18:26:54 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
This is GD, so to be expected. I posted in the proper thread a week ago, and guess what, no trolls, no Jenn, just everyone saying the new changes suck not only because of the awful names, but also because it doesn't even accomplish the objectives of tiericide, as meta 0 modules still suck and have no purpose.

Literally EVERYONE is saying these changes suck except for the special snowflake Jenn.
Medalyn.
Look at what you wrote ...
... and ask yourself ...
... Is this helpfull in regards to finding a solution?


The obvious answer is: No.

Does it make you feel better to write it? Yes.

Does that indicate that you are seriously angry about the topic ...
... and about people who do not agree with you? Yes.


While I understand both points ...
... wouldn't it be far more meaningfull to talk with those who agree with you?

People who actually know how to move things?
Like ... me?


See my point?


See ... I have gotten two Likes for my post above ...
... but no one contacted me.
... I have received a mail just now and I'll read it. xD


Anyhow ...

Do you people want to be taken seriously ...
... or is all you want to do simply puke your opinions around?


Because that is NOT helpfull at all, you know?
It's literally just puking around your anger against people who do
not behave in a way that makes your brain feel comfortable.

Pointless to the matter, really!



My offer still stands.


If you people rather be alone ... that's fine too ...
... but that's not helpfull in regards to the interest we all share.


And that's what matters, right?


Right.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#170 - 2014-09-29 18:30:49 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
This is GD, so to be expected. I posted in the proper thread a week ago, and guess what, no trolls, no Jenn, just everyone saying the new changes suck not only because of the awful names, but also because it doesn't even accomplish the objectives of tiericide, as meta 0 modules still suck and have no purpose.

Literally EVERYONE is saying these changes suck except for the special snowflake Jenn.
Medalyn.
Look at what you wrote ...
... and ask yourself ...
... Is this helpfull in regards to finding a solution?


The obvious answer is: No.

Does it make you feel better to write it? Yes.

Does that indicate that you are seriously angry about the topic ...
... and about people who do not agree with you? Yes.


While I understand both points ...
... wouldn't it be far more meaningfull to talk with those who agree with you?

People who actually know how to move things?
Like ... me?


See my point?


See ... I have gotten two Likes for my post above ...
... but no one contacted me.
... I have received a mail just now and I'll read it. xD


Anyhow ...

Do you people want to be taken seriously ...
... or is all you want to do simply puke your opinions around?


Because that is NOT helpfull at all, you know?
It's literally just puking around your anger against people who do
not behave in a way that makes your brain feel comfortable.

Pointless to the matter, really!



My offer still stands.


If you people rather be alone ... that's fine too ...
... but that's not helpfull in regards to the interest we all share.


And that's what matters, right?


Right.

Lol. I know you love GD Sol, but it is a meaningless cess pit full of trolls. All sensible discussion has already taken place in the information portal. I'm just posting here to jump on the bandwagon and bash stupid trolls like Jenn for lols.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#171 - 2014-09-29 18:31:34 UTC
Im fine with the new changes.
Solecist Project
#172 - 2014-09-29 18:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Lol. I know you love GD Sol, but it is a meaningless cess pit full of trolls. All sensible discussion has already taken place in the information portal. I'm just posting here to jump on the bandwagon and bash stupid trolls like Jenn for lols.
And you are one of them.

There is no need for discussion.
Discussion is irrelevant.
It leads nowhere.

'Discussion' is a part of "Divide and Conquer",
which is a technique to divide the people to make them easily conquerable.


Do you really care about these changes ...
... or do you only care about puking around your meaningless opinion?

Because that's what you do.


You can keep discussing all you want ... it's irrelevant.
No one *relevant* really cares about discussing.
It only helps them, because you remove your attention from what actually matters.


I still only received one mail and it's not from you.


I'm waiting ......

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#173 - 2014-09-29 18:42:47 UTC
Bas Hauser wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bas Hauser wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

EVE is a spaceship game


Ehhh. Understatement of the century...
Did you know there are things like industry, research, marketing? My gf back in 2005 was so obsessed with those things she havent left the station for weeks! Her best ships was a Velator! Based on the numbers it's a 'mods' game rather than a spaceship game, but frankly, it's neither.
For the rocks and pebbles, you are wrong or you missed the course on overview basics: there are things like Veldspar, Kernite, etc, and Strange Rock Formation too! Big smile Rename those as well, don't you think? Like Big Yellow Ore, Small Bluish Ore...
Again, try harder.



We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules.

I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful.

CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade.


Calling a yellow rock Veldspar is good you say.
Calling a freaking big spaceship Raven is good you say.
Calling a missile launcher Arbalest Heavy Missile Launher is not good you say.
Would you kindly explain your logic here?
If you think that name is confusing and you are too lazy to compare stuff and remember names, don't you think you are under - or far above - the recommended age to play this game?



CCP disagrees with you. I'm glad they do.
Solecist Project
#174 - 2014-09-29 18:46:42 UTC

People ... stop argueing with this empty hull and start doing something meaningfull.

You are forgetting that,
while you waste your time trying to explain a blind person how it is to see ...
... that there are more important things to do in regards to your interests.


Is all that matters really that others tell you that you are right?
Is all that matters really that you have to make others admit that you are right?

Do you people really lack self confidence so much, that this has become relevant?



That's nuts.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#175 - 2014-09-29 19:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Morihei Akachi
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP disagrees with you.

And quite apart from all the polemics, that is an interesting observation. Because they clearly didn't always. At some point in the past, when these modules were first being rolled out, some dev or devs clearly put considerable time and creativity into making up names for them that sounded realistic and plausible for an advanced future technological civilization. And I imagine it was probably really fun. So somewhere along the line all that work that someone did has gone from being "a contribution to the richness and flavour of New Eden" to being "a barrier to getting into the game." I think that's an interesting change of perspective, and I'd be curious to know what precipitated it.

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)

Solecist Project
#176 - 2014-09-29 19:31:26 UTC
Here, you sissies, empty hulls and pointless discussers.

This is part of a post by CCP Fozzie.



CCP Fozzie wrote:

Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far.

We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming.
I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization
should somehow be a requirement to play EVE.

It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable.

However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit
and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns.

Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2014-09-29 20:25:02 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Here, you sissies, empty hulls and pointless discussers.

This is part of a post by CCP Fozzie.



CCP Fozzie wrote:

Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far.

We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming.
I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization
should somehow be a requirement to play EVE.

It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable.

However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit
and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns.

Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon.


Well, what is it you have in mind?

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.

Nerva Auris
#178 - 2014-09-29 20:48:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules.

I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful.

CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade.


Everything in the game is just a tool for doing something else.

You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!"

Why do we need 'Raven' instead of 'Caldari Missile Battleship'?

Why do we need 'Veldspar' instead of 'Tritanium-Pyerite Asteroid'?

Why do we need 'Tritanium' or 'Pyerite' instead of 'Mineral 1' and 'Mineral 2'. That would actually simplify mining immensely, cause we could just have '1-2 Asteroid', or '1-2-4 Asteroid' telling you exactly what minerals every asteroid contains without the needless complexity and suffering of clicking 'show information'.
Solecist Project
#179 - 2014-09-29 20:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Nerva Auris wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


We are talking about MODULES here. Not rocks, not spaceships. No, it's not ok to change the names of the spaceships, yes it is ok with the modules.

I don't understand why some of you can't stay on topic. Renaming the spaceship or rocks would be dumb. The MODULES, however, are just tools that do certain things and CCP seems to want to get rid of 'needless' complexity of the (heretofore stupid) names while retooling the actual items to be useful.

CCP isn't doing any dumbing down here (i'd be the 1st to protest if they were, ask anyone, trying to make EVE 'noob friendly' is a fools errand), they are un-dumbing a naming scheme (along with actual item stats) that's been dumb for a decade.


Everything in the game is just a tool for doing something else.

You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!"

Why do we need 'Raven' instead of 'Caldari Missile Battleship'?

Why do we need 'Veldspar' instead of 'Tritanium-Pyerite Asteroid'?

Why do we need 'Tritanium' or 'Pyerite' instead of 'Mineral 1' and 'Mineral 2'. That would actually simplify mining immensely, cause we could just have '1-2 Asteroid', or '1-2-4 Asteroid' telling you exactly what minerals every asteroid contains without the needless complexity and suffering of clicking 'show information'.
Why does it matter to you what she thinks?
Why do you need a clarification from her?
Does she work for CCP?

Does it matter what she thinks?

Do you care about the matter,
or about being right?

Are you seriously assuming you can explain a blind person how it is like to see?

*shakes head*



Hiply, I'll unblock you when I am at home again.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#180 - 2014-09-29 21:00:33 UTC
Nerva Auris wrote:

You still haven't clarified the reasons behind "Creative/interesting names for x and y things are good, creative/interesting names for z things are stupid and bad wrong!"

Probably because that's not what they are saying, or what the Devs are doing.
Under the Devs proposal you still have to memorise that the scoped variant has extra range, that an autocannon is a projectile and that a 200mm artillery is a frigate sized weapon (I think). And people are not saying that we shouldn't have creative names.
They are saying that we should have clear names first.

If a name can be clear & creative that's a good thing.

But with the number of modules in the game it's unreasonable to expect people to memorise individual names that don't follow a convention. The number of ships or asteroids in the game is vastly less, and even then they do follow a convention with ship names, Caldari use a lot of bird names for example. And because it is a much smaller number it is easier to memorise the differences.