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Dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, One Module At A Time

First post First post First post
Author
Red Bluesteel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#301 - 2014-09-29 01:44:12 UTC
Pecora Nera wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Hi!


And I loved it! It felt like a freaking muscle car!
Any you wanna know WHY it felt like a muscle car?

Because it had a Y-S8 Hydsocarbon Afterburner!

A Y-S8 HYDROCARGON AFTERBURNER!


Can you imagine how I would have felt fitting a LIMITED 10MN AFTERBURNER onto it?
!


I agree with this rant.

But I strongly suspect that CCP's unstated reason for the great module renaming is not intended to dumb-down the game, but is actually been done to make the localisation to other languages easier (and cheaper).

It's a lot easier to translate "limited" into French (or any given %language% ), and use that for all modules, than to get a meaningful translation of "Y-S8 HYDROCARBON" (and all the other module specific flavour-names.)

And if you play the game that they play, you suddenly no longer be named Mr.Miller but Mr.Müller (German), very nice ...
Red Bluesteel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#302 - 2014-09-29 01:47:16 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Two questions:

1. Where exactly is the logic in Meta 5, 6, etc. if there is no Meta 2, 3 and 4?

2. Until now, when newbies have asked what to do with all their unwanted loot, the answer has generally been "sell Meta 4 and above, reprocess everything else" - so what will be the advice now?

Reprocess everything less and above Meta 5 and sell it Big smile because we don't need anymore Names Items harharhar Twisted
Red Bluesteel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#303 - 2014-09-29 01:49:05 UTC
profundus fossura wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Pecora Nera wrote:
Priscilla Project wrote:
Hi!


And I loved it! It felt like a freaking muscle car!
Any you wanna know WHY it felt like a muscle car?

Because it had a Y-S8 Hydsocarbon Afterburner!

A Y-S8 HYDROCARGON AFTERBURNER!


Can you imagine how I would have felt fitting a LIMITED 10MN AFTERBURNER onto it?
!


I agree with this rant.

But I strongly suspect that CCP's unstated reason for the great module renaming is not intended to dumb-down the game, but is actually been done to make the localisation to other languages easier (and cheaper).

It's a lot easier to translate "limited" into French (or any given %language% ), and use that for all modules, than to get a meaningful translation of "Y-S8 HYDROCARBON" (and all the other module specific flavour-names.)

But that's the great part about it!

Names do not necessarily need a translation! It's a name!
And you know what hydrocarbon translates to in ...

... french? hydrocarbure !
... spanish? hidrocarburos !
... in dutch? koolwaterstof !
... in german? kohlenwasserstoff !

But the ABSOLUTELY best part about it?

It doesn't matter what it translates to!

There are so many names that are literally irrelevant to translate anyway,
because what matters is not the name, but that they give the item a feeling!

You will not find a single item in the real world where marketing thinks about
"oh my, does that name make any sense?" ... No!

They might think about a name that MIGHT have a connection to the actual item,
but this isn't even relevant! What matters is that it sounds cool and fits the product!


A rifter ... feeling like a muscle car, because it's engine's name sounds powerfull!

And not LIMITED!
Not AMPLE!
Not EXPERIMENTAL!


Y-S8 HYDROCARBON AFTERBURNER!



After reading this I want a Y-S8 kohlenwasserstoff Afterburner

No what you want is a "Y-S8 Kohlenwasserstoff Nachbrenner" Big smile
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#304 - 2014-09-29 02:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Well spotted, this should actually be -25% (which is what you'll see on Sisi just now). We'll get that changed in the blog.


That...doesn't work.

The base capacitor penalty of the T1 is -20%, countered by a 36% reduction in capacitor recharge time. The equates to a net increase of 25% to cap regen.

The Compact version, using the numbers in the blog, is a 26.98% increase in cap regen, with the same -20% capacity penalty.

The T2 version, again from the blog, is a 31.15% regen increase, with the same -20% capacity penalty.

The Restrained, though, is backwards. It provides a 27.12% regen penalty (slightly more than the Compact, less than T2), but has a higher cap capacity penalty, at -25%. This makes it slightly better for actual potency, but much worse for drawback.

What it should be is -15% capacity (less penalty, which is what "Retrained" is supposed to indicate) with a 33% reduction in cap regen time. That gives it a net regen increase of 26.87% (right in line with the Compact version), but 5% less penalty to overall capacitor capacity.
Matsumoto Takei
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2014-09-29 04:43:32 UTC
Emiko Rowna wrote:
Would this not work better?

Co-Processor Of the Tiger
Co-Processor Of the Bear
Co-Processor Of the Gorilla
Co-Processor Of the Boar
Co-Processor Of the Monkey
Co-Processor Of the Falcon
Co-Processor Of the Wolf
Co-Processor Of the Tiger
Co-Processor Of the Eagle
Co-Processor Of the Whale
Co-Processor Of the Owl


This ^^^^
Marek Walerian
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#306 - 2014-09-29 04:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Marek Walerian
Looks like all 16 pages have been in vain. The fact that there are no blue dev posts other than on the first page coupled with the next patch being released tomorrow reinforces that fact. Looks like the new names are soon to be in. It is a really sad day in Eve Cry

On a side note, I have been playing around with new pvp Helios.. err.. i mean "Frigate of the Bear" fit and want your opinion.
Friagte of the Bear
Damage Control of the Bear
Magnetic Field Stabilizer of the Bear
Micro Auxiliary Power Core of the Bear

Warp Scrambler of the Bear
Tracking Disruptor of the Bear
1MN Afterburner of the Bear

150mm Railgun of the Bear
150mm Railgun of the Bear

Small Auxiliary Thrusters of the Bear
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator of the Bear

Small Drone of the Bear


Let me know what you guys think.
Emiko Rowna
Keys To The Stars
#307 - 2014-09-29 05:49:13 UTC
Marek Walerian wrote:
Looks like all 16 pages have been in vain. The fact that there are no blue dev posts other than on the first page coupled with the next patch being released tomorrow reinforces that fact. Looks like the new names are soon to be in. It is a really sad day in Eve Cry

On a side note, I have been playing around with new pvp Helios.. err.. i mean "Frigate of the Bear" fit and want your opinion.
Friagte of the Bear
Damage Control of the Bear
Magnetic Field Stabilizer of the Bear
Micro Auxiliary Power Core of the Bear

Warp Scrambler of the Bear
Tracking Disruptor of the Bear
1MN Afterburner of the Bear

150mm Railgun of the Bear
150mm Railgun of the Bear

Small Auxiliary Thrusters of the Bear
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator of the Bear

Small Drone of the Bear


Let me know what you guys think.


I look forward to trying this out!


I still have not seem an answer to the question I asked pages ago.

As these names change, will my saved fittings be updated? The Dev Blog did not say this was going to be part of the process. I just don't want to find out I will need to go through every saved fitting and update them myself.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#308 - 2014-09-29 09:40:22 UTC
This is a crappy idea, it's dumbing it down for people who CBA to click the compare tool and making the eve lore that much blander in the process. Gone will be the scout autos or malkuth rocket launcher... welcome the "ample" module. FFS... AMPLE ? Why not just call them "ok I guess" or "they'll do I suppose" or even just "average".

CCP can do one, they are creating a dull, dumb and dreary landscape, meh.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#309 - 2014-09-29 09:42:02 UTC
Priscilla Project wrote:
Hi!

I would like to bring your attention to the relevant discussions thread in GD, here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=375576&find=unread


A lot of people are not happy with this absolutely crappy idea of yours that will remove
so much depth from the game!


Let me tell you WHY it's a crappy idea, okay?


Back in 2009 when I started playing this game,
my favourite ship was a 10mn AfterBurner Rifter, sporting 250mm Artillery!

Yes, you read that right!


And I loved it! It felt like a freaking muscle car!
Any you wanna know WHY it felt like a muscle car?

Because it had a Y-S8 Hydrocarbon Afterburner!

A Y-S8 HYDROCARBON AFTERBURNER!


Can you imagine how I would have felt fitting a LIMITED 10MN AFTERBURNER onto it?

Is the difference really not that obvious for you?


Why don't we rename all our ships too, when we're at it?
Who needs names anyway, right?

Minmatar Attack Frigate.
Minmatar Combat Frigate.
Minmatar Logistics Frigate.

Why have names like Rifter, Slasher, Breacher, etc ??
What's the point?

If people can just search for "frigate" they get them all listed, right?


Why do you have to make it so hard for people to find ships? How can you expect that
they freaking remember all these names, right?


Yes, I am pissed about how you are ruining the game form the inside,
turning it into a bland, empty, depthless game nobody will care about,
because you remove any emotional value and connection to it!


I idiot stayed silent the last time you did it,
but i will NOT make the same freaking mistake again!


MY rifter felt like a musclecar!

YOUR rifter feels like a worthless piece of crap!


hear hear !
Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#310 - 2014-09-29 09:58:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
I still think the new naming system is bloody awful. I hate the fact that we didn't get to give any feedback on this.

Personally, although it may be more work, I think the naming system should be much broader. Instead of just having a set of prefixes for EVERY module in game, there should be a set of prefixes for each type of module (similar to now but simpler).
We need to keep the flavour of the Sci Fi nature of the game whilst making it easier to understand without ruining it.

Armour plates are a great example of this because we use materials to seperate the items.

We have
Steel
Nanofiber
Titanium
Crystalline Carbonite
Tungnsten

If we loose this for:
Upgraded
Compact
Restrained

I think it will look awful and not really make sense!

Take armour plates and simply do this to them:
Steel - Basic (snowflakes)
Titanium - T1
Tungnsten - "Upgraded" (All round best)
Nanofiber - Reduced mass penalty but not so good armour boost
Crystalline Carbonite - Easiest to fit
T2 Steel - T2 version (Best Armour, Most difficult to fit, More mass penalty than upgraded)

We keep names that make sense and still appear "Real" becase a "Restrained 800mm armour plate" sounds stupid.

Try to be a bit sci fi with shield extenders too.
Current:
Shield Extender I (T1)
Supplemental Barrier Emitter
Subordinate Screen Stabilizer
Azeotropic Ward Salubrity
F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Shield Extender II (T2)

We only need 3 meta versions so change the names to:
Shield Extender I (T1) or for the sake of continuity - F-S1 Shield Extender (T1)
F-S6-R Shield Extender (Lowest Sig Penalty)
F-S4-C Shield Extender (Lowest Fitting)
F-S9 Shield Extender ("Upgraded")
Shield Extender II (T2) or for the sake of continuity - F-S9-2 Shield Extender (T2)


The prefixed letters and numbers will become familiar to users. We don't need the words "Ample or Restrained".

Also, as suggested earlier. Start branding the things!! Implants are branded so why aren't modules!

Examples are easy:
Duvolle Labs Armour Repairer
Boundless Creation Shield Booster
Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#311 - 2014-09-29 10:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Then lets look at weapons.

Instead of the daft prefixes of
•Upgraded
•Compact
•Enduring
•Ample
•Scoped
•Restrained

Do things like:

GR-5 Mounted (Weapon) Where the GR-5 is a high tracking mount
EC-12 Coupled (Weapon) Where the EC-12 is a reduced fitting coupling
F4r/T Scope Fitted (Weapon) Extended Optimal
B-15/cR Scope Fitted (weapon) Extended Falloff
HPc-99 Capacitor Mounted (weapon) Reduced Cap Use
EC-100 Extended Magazine (Weapon) Expanded Capacity

Because I would far prefer to fit a rack of:
EC-100 Extended Magazine 425mm Railguns
over a rack of
Ample 425mm Railguns
Priscilla Project
Doomheim
#312 - 2014-09-29 10:23:28 UTC
FRONT!

Sol says Hi!
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#313 - 2014-09-29 12:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Any chance of a dev response to the overwhelming sentiment in this thread regarding naming? I know you can't rush these things but Oceanus is only a couple of days away.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#314 - 2014-09-29 13:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Marek Walerian wrote:
Looks like all 16 pages have been in vain. The fact that there are no blue dev posts other than on the first page coupled with the next patch being released tomorrow reinforces that fact. Looks like the new names are soon to be in. It is a really sad day in Eve Cry

On a side note, I have been playing around with new pvp Helios.. err.. i mean "Frigate of the Bear" fit and want your opinion.
Friagte of the Bear
Damage Control of the Bear
Magnetic Field Stabilizer of the Bear
Micro Auxiliary Power Core of the Bear

Warp Scrambler of the Bear
Tracking Disruptor of the Bear
1MN Afterburner of the Bear

150mm Railgun of the Bear
150mm Railgun of the Bear

Small Auxiliary Thrusters of the Bear
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator of the Bear

Small Drone of the Bear


Let me know what you guys think.


What would be a kind of awesome revenge would be for that ship to be blown up by a 'Salmon fit Destoyer'. Big smile
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#315 - 2014-09-29 13:38:58 UTC
Pecora Nera wrote:
Its good that ccp are finally making the effort to clean up the state of the modules.
A number of issues with their approach (and possible solutions) have been raised and described quite eloquently in the comments above, I won't dwell on those other than I do agree with the general discussion so far.

Instead, i wish to discuss two other issues that have been lightly touched on:
A) user-manufactured T1 modules are basically useless/valueless compared to higher metas, and will become even more-so.
B) if all rat-dropped modules are now to be "useful", the rarity and therefore value of them will go through the floor.



Yea, they likely will just drop them out of the loot table and not adjust to make up for it.

Think drone regions.

I think they're all playing wow.
Leyete Wulf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#316 - 2014-09-29 14:20:36 UTC
Marek Walerian wrote:

Friagte of the Bear
Damage Control of the Bear
Magnetic Field Stabilizer of the Bear
Micro Auxiliary Power Core of the Bear

Warp Scrambler of the Bear
Tracking Disruptor of the Bear
1MN Afterburner of the Bear

150mm Railgun of the Bear
150mm Railgun of the Bear

Small Auxiliary Thrusters of the Bear
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator of the Bear

Small Drone of the Bear


Absolutely unbearable....

sry couldn't resist Lol
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#317 - 2014-09-29 15:29:54 UTC
Drone 16 wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Damn, If I had known how much you people would cry, bitter tears, over someone renaming your precious modules. I would have learned programming and applied to CCP for a job. Your tears are delicious. BOO FRIGGING HOO!

Seriously, this is going to be the third time I've had to learn/relearn module names. I'm not upset by this and neither should you, ya big whiny babies.


What do you care about naming conventions? You never see them.

Your ships are fit for you (you never see the modules)

You undock when you are told (you don't know what ship you are in)

you press F1 when you are instructed ( you don't know what you are firing)

In short, you are bad at this game and we all discount what you and your ilk write out of hand.

Even your tear collecting jar is a hand me down from a comrade who moved on Cool


This is epic.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#318 - 2014-09-29 15:38:24 UTC
Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far.

We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming.
I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization should somehow be a requirement to play EVE. It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable.
However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns. Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon.

Also, if you've read the patch notes or dev blog today you'll have seen that we made an adjustment to the Restrained Cap Flux Coil stats. We had some wires crossed internally and thanks to your feedback we've cleared up the erroneous stats. The Restrained Cap Flux Coil will indeed have reduced drawback instead of increased drawback. It will have a capacitor pool penalty of -10% and a recharge speed bonus of 28%.

Thanks.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Meditril
It is really us
Beyond the Breach
#319 - 2014-09-29 15:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Meditril
I am just wondering if you also will take care of the costs of faction modules. For example, the Minmatar Faction Light Missile Launcher is much too much expensive to be used of frigates for that little bit of benefit it provides compared to the T2 module. (Especially taking into consideration that Faction Modules can't use T2-Ammo)
DireNecessity
Mayhem-Industries
#320 - 2014-09-29 16:25:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys. Thanks for the feedback so far.

We're doing some discussion internally about the concerns some people have expressed about the naming.
I will say that we absolutely reject any argument that attempts to claim that obscure name memorization should somehow be a requirement to play EVE. It's not "dumbing down the game" to make systems more easily understandable.
However some of the concerns about the lore and flavour have merit and we're talking about what we might change to better address those concerns. Nothing related to this will be changing for Oceanus, but everything can be iterated upon.

Also, if you've read the patch notes or dev blog today you'll have seen that we made an adjustment to the Restrained Cap Flux Coil stats. We had some wires crossed internally and thanks to your feedback we've cleared up the erroneous stats. The Restrained Cap Flux Coil will indeed have reduced drawback instead of increased drawback. It will have a capacitor pool penalty of -10% and a recharge speed bonus of 28%.

Thanks.


Fozzie,

I agree that obscure naming is a red herring argument and, sadly, it may drown out a different, possibly more fruitful line of exploration. As best I can see, this first pass module rebalancing does nothing to make fitting player produced tech 1 (meta 0) modules sensible in any case since even the compact versions not only use less resources (powergrid/cpu etc.) but also produce better results (rate of fire/powergrid increase, ect.).

This, of course, matches the current situation where generally the player manufactured tech one (meta 0) is the worst of all possible options including from a cost perspective (low meta being so numerous and reprocessing so poorly, it generally sells on the market for less than the meta 0 option).

Will drop rates be adjusted to make named modules rare enough to be more valuable/expensive than player produced meta 0 modules or is the thinking that Tech II manufacturing provides sufficient demand for player produced meta 0 modules and thus there’s no need to create even more demand for them by making them sensible options in their own right?

DireNecessity