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The Null Deal: A Statement from Sovereign Nullsec

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Levarris Hawk
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#261 - 2014-09-29 13:13:52 UTC
Quote:
THE SANSHA'S NATION WISHES TO EXPAND ITS BORDERS, AND 9HXQ-G IS ONE OF ITS TARGETS. THEY HAVE SET UP A MAJOR BASE OF OPERATIONS IN 3GD6-8 AND ARE SLOWLY DESTROYING ALL OPPOSITION TO THEIR FORCES, WHILE THEIR PEONS BUILD THEIR NEW STARBASES. THE BIGGEST HINDRANCE TO THEIR PLANS IS IN MY-W1V. A GIGANTIC MINING COLONY, ALONG WITH A TRADING HUB, IS LOCATED THERE AND THE INHABITANTS ARE EXTREMELY AFRAID OF WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THEM SHOULD SANSHA DECLARE OWNERSHIP OF THEIR SOLAR-SYSTEM. THEY HAVE ASSEMBLED A SIZABLE FLEET OF AMARR AND AMMATAR SHIPS TO PROTECT THEIR ASSETS, AND PREVENT THE SANSHA'S NATION FROM EXPANDING THEIR SOVEREIGNTY INTO 9HXQ-G.


So, the sansha's nation will finally be able to fulfill its wishes if this proposal goes through. Huzzah.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#262 - 2014-09-29 13:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Securitas Protector wrote:
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

Can you please ask CCP to comment, I'm sure we're all interested in what they have to say.
Rest assured I have done so. I am however unable to say if and/or when CCP will comment in/on this thread, as I frankly do not know.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Nienna Itinen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#263 - 2014-09-29 13:21:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nienna Itinen
Jenn aSide wrote:

I do not believe the 'conspiracy' nuts when they say that the null sec people are saying this because they want to gain something. I do think they (the signatories) are mistaken and not taking everything into account. One such thing is that npc null in every region VASTLY simplifies logistics, because now their is an npc station in EVERY region to jump through. no need to send in an unsafe cyno alt to a system you don't won if you want to move your cap fleet across the map, no need to use unsafe low sec routes either.

\Just hop scotch across npc null systems from one side of the map to the other.


For current signatories yes. They will have (at first view):
- simple logistic
- their caps will never be locked at one station (because they have NPC station at 2-3 jumps)
- less fuel requirements for region grind (remember? we have NPC station in all regions, just one time jump in this system and thats all)
- they will have some fun with pilots who try to live in this systems (camps/drops and other)
- they don't lose current space with this changes
Conar Balcos
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#264 - 2014-09-29 13:32:47 UTC
I would like to have a beer + Sounds good.
Naco Dacella
drop table corporations
#265 - 2014-09-29 13:36:39 UTC
Upvote
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#266 - 2014-09-29 13:36:39 UTC
Caerbanog Walace wrote:

Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.



Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.
Nienna Itinen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#267 - 2014-09-29 13:43:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.

Quote:

- they will have some fun with pilots who try to live in this systems (camps/drops and other)
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#268 - 2014-09-29 14:03:31 UTC
+1

I have pretty much lived in all of Null over the past 11 years. Dronelands, the South, Period Basis, Pure Blind/Fade, Venal, Deklain and I think that the gist of this proposal is a great start.

With it broken down into parts, it can be implemented over several stages, they could even be sold as content, introducing a new "anti-rogue-drone" faction that moves into the east as they fear a terminator type wipe-out of biological life, hell, throw some event in the surrounding low-sec where rogue drones start spreading out with new ships, models and such, give the rogue drones rogue-ishtars, rattlesnakes, a version of every drone-boat, give the new faction anti-drone type ships and modules for players to LP up.

This could all be sold as reasonable content and features and be steps towards the ultimate goal.

Making sov based on occupancy can be introduce alongside the current system, introduce all the new features then phase-out the existing system.
Aareya
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#269 - 2014-09-29 14:07:10 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Aareya wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
So, in essence it is just going to be more safe havens for the Sov 00 holders where they can evacuate their assets to.

Because low sec can't be used for this purpose already while providing better range by low sec midpoints?


Low sec is far away from deep water drone land, angel & Sansha space, or even Branch and Tenal or Period Basis. If you have NPC space in every Sov 00 region, this difficulty is gone and you have an easily accessible and reachable safe haven everywhere. I hope you see the difference between that and "because low sec can't be used for this purpose already".

When destructible stations are implemented (already announced @ Fanfest), the little guy will be able to enter the sov game and be able to safeguard some assets in NPC 0.0 before the "big guy" comes and possibly destroys their station. With the current map, small groups will just say "Nope, not for me".

The big guys already have their stuff in low sec, regardless of where on the map they are.

Twitter:   @AareyaEVE
Carl Stonewall
Valentine Drone Design
#270 - 2014-09-29 14:07:35 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Sounds like the shitlord blobs want to be fed tourists.
-1, bad precedent, CCP getting nagged 24/7 anyway.




Haha your right on the money +1 to - 1 this
Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#271 - 2014-09-29 14:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Heavypredator Singh
baltec1 wrote:
Caerbanog Walace wrote:

Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.



Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.


We want to lose :) Yea now You want to lose it because they will nerf Your ability to hold it. So You want more in less systems to sustain big and abnormal alliance/coalition that wasn't designed to be in this game. You will lose it anyway - there is no point to reiburse You with more resources. You still want to have blob available but this need to change - massive fleets are what is killing eve - tidi and no opponents that can match numbers. Only way anything will change is to slice the coalitions to pieces.
umnikar
Fishbone Industries
#272 - 2014-09-29 14:09:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Caerbanog Walace wrote:

Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.



Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.


...and then takin rent from them also?

Wait, are you saying there's not enough space for all the players?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#273 - 2014-09-29 14:11:31 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caerbanog Walace wrote:

Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.



Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.


We want to lose :) Yea now You want to lose it because they will nerf Your ability to hold it. So You want more in less systems to sustain big and abnormal alliance/coalition that wasn't designed to be in this game. You will lose it anyway - there is no point to reiburse You with more resources. You still want to have blob available but this need to change - massive fleets are what is killing eve - tidi and no opponents that can match numbers. Only way anything will change is to slice the coalitions to pieces.


You cannot host any alliance of any size if the system you own can support at most 10 people at a time.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#274 - 2014-09-29 14:14:06 UTC
umnikar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caerbanog Walace wrote:

Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.



Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.


...and then takin rent from them also?

Wait, are you saying there's not enough space for all the players?


There is plenty of room out here, most of null is all but abandoned. We also would not be taking rent off these new alliances as we wouldn't own their space.
Heavypredator Singh
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#275 - 2014-09-29 14:15:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caerbanog Walace wrote:

Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.



Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.


We want to lose :) Yea now You want to lose it because they will nerf Your ability to hold it. So You want more in less systems to sustain big and abnormal alliance/coalition that wasn't designed to be in this game. You will lose it anyway - there is no point to reiburse You with more resources. You still want to have blob available but this need to change - massive fleets are what is killing eve - tidi and no opponents that can match numbers. Only way anything will change is to slice the coalitions to pieces.


You cannot host any alliance of any size if the system you own can support at most 10 people at a time.


So that is why most of Your sov is empty ?
This is why it is rented out?
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#276 - 2014-09-29 14:20:26 UTC
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Heavypredator Singh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Caerbanog Walace wrote:

Here I must disagree. This will lead to massive staging points and to the desertification of nullsec.



Thats the point. We want to lose 70-80% of the space we hold and to make it possible to host your thousands of players in a small amount of systems. This frees up all of the abandoned space we currently own to others to enter the sov game.


We want to lose :) Yea now You want to lose it because they will nerf Your ability to hold it. So You want more in less systems to sustain big and abnormal alliance/coalition that wasn't designed to be in this game. You will lose it anyway - there is no point to reiburse You with more resources. You still want to have blob available but this need to change - massive fleets are what is killing eve - tidi and no opponents that can match numbers. Only way anything will change is to slice the coalitions to pieces.


You cannot host any alliance of any size if the system you own can support at most 10 people at a time.


So that is why most of Your sov is empty ?
This is why it is rented out?


Exactly...they rent out the good stuff, and then complain there isn't enough "density" - read farming ability in whats left - so they want to buff that. Now they get the best of both worlds, enough prime real estate to rent AND to support their own farming. Basically a massive buff to nullsec. Of course, as per usual, they will just rent out even more stuff and shaft their own pilots again.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#277 - 2014-09-29 14:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Heavypredator Singh wrote:


So that is why most of Your sov is empty ?
This is why it is rented out?


Most of our space is more or less useless as you will earn a good deal more isk blitzing level 4s in high sec. Renting out our space is only a thing because we had to replace the moon goo income when they nerfed tech. What we need is bottom up income you can earn in null and that allows for an alliance to actually be able to live in the space it owns and supports all of its members. Want to kill of the rental empires? The get behind occupancy sov as that makes it impossible to hold vast areas of space to rent out.
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#278 - 2014-09-29 14:27:18 UTC
Regatto wrote:
They felt that fire of change burning under butts and this looks like their attempt to turn it to their advantage .


Is it just me or is it fishy this "proposal" is done pretty sudden (Some sovgroups only given 24h to respond) and straight after the CSM summit where CCP showed their plans for nullchanges?

Also having all players of an alliance in a few systems next to each other sounds a lot like 100% safety and death of smallscale roaming. Unless ofc your smallscaleroam consists of more ships than the owner has members...
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#279 - 2014-09-29 14:28:54 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Exactly...they rent out the good stuff, and then complain there isn't enough "density" - read farming ability in whats left


Yeah, no. A fully upgraded -1.0 system has something like 5 havens (two types, supporting 2 players), 3 forsaken hubs (1 more player) and a load of crap sites that nobody bothers with. There's also generally 1 sanctum, but those 3 players running the other decent anomolies can deal with that when it pops up. Belt ratting is worse than crap, which just leaves mining for the masochists.

That's as good as it gets, which is exactly why alliances currently need to own huge amounts of land for their members to make isk.

Maybe go live in nullsec before you pontificate about it? Any claims you might make aside, you clearly haven't lived there.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#280 - 2014-09-29 14:32:36 UTC
This idea is the pinnacle of risk aversion. It is a means to a simple end: a nigh impenetrable city on a hill from which to launch sorties against smaller entities in order to farm easy kills.

Population Density
With this change you could fit the entire CFC + Renters in deklein, probably without using every constellation. And why not? It is far easier to protect your nullbears and renters when there are 200+ dudes per pve system rather than 5-10 dudes per pve system. Perfect safety and easy defense.

NPC Stations
An NPC station 20 gate jumps form any arbitrary point on the map. Has some fledgling alliance in some obscure corner of the galaxy dared use capitals? Stage 200+ dreads in an npc station 1 capital jump out. "Content" for the whole alliance. Best of all, there's no need for B0tlord or the donut, just avoid the other guy's city-constellation and everything else is a farm.

The CFC will have their city in deklein, PL in the drone regions, N3 somewhere in the east. The unused space will empty out and some fledgling alliances may even stake a claim. But the moment they have anything scarcely worthwhile, someone will show up on the NPC doorstep looking for "content," while their own bears are safe as houses. Everyone gets their own personal providence to farm. How quaint. This isn't "conflict," this is easy mode farm for the blob.