Crime & Punishment

As an aside, I flew with Summer. Can't remember if it was their FC or a group before Summer, but one of the FC's was very good. Wish i could remember his name, too long ago :-(

TVP do not play well with others.

I never said ISN suffered any loss. Someone else said that. I said ISN took advantage of the situation. If I was in that situation where I could go in and complete the site and take the loot that was left, then I would. There is nothing in the game mechanics that prevent you from looting other people's wrecks, except for the risk of going suspect. If a person is willing to take that risk, then so be it.

BTW, my first paragraph is illustrating a generalized situation I have seen while flying in a non-incursion fleet.

I don't do Incursions anymore. I find them more boring than mining.

For me it's amazing how TVP is still consider ISN an entity and "incursion community" despite ISN's newest ~0 ISK/month (!) income rate (more than a month passed since their last effective HQ farm). From the look of things ISN now isn't any more of incursion community than TEST for example - TEST also makes 0 ISK/month from incursions.

If incursions (and income from them) were actual points of ISN's existence then they'd reform and start to farm weeks ago but instead they prove on daily basis money isn't their goal, they look like dedicated griefing company rather than a business - and as long as they'll continue to provoke TVP I'll support TVP's sanctions (anyway I can make ISK in TVP fleets out of ISN's prime time hehe)

p.s. dear devs, how about 6-12 hours incursion respawn time instead of 12-36 hours?

As a fellow primary member I agree 100% relaxing is for sure the term I would use, ISN fleets are easier than ever before to get into.

This just in: Vanguards and Assaults exist in Incursions, and can be done easier than HQ sites!

So, I guess it's [i/]not[/i] "~0 ISK/month income rate", as you say. There's other things that they can do, and they may have been doing just that.

Look, TVP clearly has some issues going on. While TVP is trying to play as the saviors of the Incursion community, fighting against the big bad dragon that is ISN, they have gone off the deep end at this point, and it's more out of narcissism than anything else. I mean, I'm not even sure they believe their own propaganda at this point.

Tell me, who supports TVP's actions publicly? What community as a whole has come out and said, "We support TVP's attempts to raise awareness of their collective autism!"? Every community leader I have talked to has publicly stated that they don't support this TVP-ISN drama, much as no one has supported the TVP-DIN drama before, or the ISN-DIN drama, or whatever-the-hell-drama the past few years.

Helix doesn't support it. WTM doesn't support it. DIN doesn't support it. I mean, I'm just listing off the three that come to mind, but even when I do I'm sure there are a lot more who haven't supported it, at all. And no, TVP: making claims of "this group supports us in private" doesn't count, because they don't have the balls to put themselves in front of a wardec for their convictions.

So what does that leave us with? It leaves us, quite simply, with a bunch of petulant children who have been given the smallest inkling of power, and they are looking to capitalize on it. But in all honesty, I'm alright with it, for a little bit. After all, Helix Incursions has been running some great sites the past few months, and while the community-at-large has been impacted, Helix has not been, and there have been a number of players who have joined us, swelling our numbers so we can run HQs ourselves! So, thanks TVP! You helped out our community in a manner I'm sure was unintended.

Unfortunately, at least one person named charadrass has posted publicly that DIN does support it.

Helix is officially neutral, with FCs and pilots allowed to speak their conscience, per Aeon. And while I don't speak entirely for helix, I do know you do NOT.

This all said, I'm pretty bummed about it personally, as traveling cuts into my BSing and drinking time.

While he may or may not have the authority, it is still a well known DIN FC posting in such a manner as to try and put the full weight of the community behind it. Until or unless someone else from DIN either posts to forums or makes it plain, the best that can be said from DIN supporting it/not supporting it is that many of their pilots and such don't like it, but the only official post I have seen is Chara.

Do you really think people will let TVP dictate there gameplay?

Official DIN STATEMENT:
We support the Incursion closing till ISN stops forming HQ.
We even support TVP in numbers for mom fleets if we're in the same focus.

so yes. there is drama, but we dont care.
noble ranger is currently paying pilots to join the HQfleet to get pilots together to force TVP to close it.
ISN FCs currently prefer flying vanguards or assaults to make money, Noble Ranger is the only FC trying to get an HQ up to cut his own pilots off the income.

dear isn pilots, if you like making isk with incursions, stay in vanguards / assaults or join another fleet.
everytime ISN HQ undocks, the incursion will die.