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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Tired of Pointless Wars...
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#61 - 2014-08-05 23:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
As a corp CEO a wardec is mighty usefull. It indicates very well who can deal with such hostilities and adapt, and who will go idle with apathy when put under video game pressure. It is also a good way to keep vets from growing too lenient with their security measures and travel fittings, and one hell of an incentive to train up for covert transport ships. The business end of the game requires some cunning too, marketplaces are deadly when there's a gang war going on! Blink

There's a funny thing going on with wardecs (or cloaky campers for that matter). The victim could be having a far better time if he adapted his playstyle, and improved his security measures each war. For instance, we base in lowsec so we treat wardeccers with a bit of disdain, while we have to swallow a hard nut when one of us gets his ass kicked at the mall. We have to deliberately form up and go hi hisec to fight these wars. Hence only grudge-type wars (as opposed to random hub ganking) truly impacts our fun. A dec is only a formality in such wars and rarely even happen.

On the flipside we live in a dangerous environment, one that dictates a non-AFK mentality, and being a nice dude from time to time and handling a courier contract for your 2m SP friend who can't fly a Blockade runner. Or undocking your hero PVP ship when a ratter (with the decency of being in fleet-on comms) gets agressed. Conlict makes other people valuable. That's a cornerstone of the game, and hardly pointless.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#62 - 2014-08-06 01:27:19 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Decs where the targets try to "deny me content" by staying docked resulted in me employing the same tactic; keeping the dec going and if I was particularly annoyed by the corp, I would stay logged in and docked even when I was not at the computer so they could never feel safe to play (and when they did get used to my presence and undocked to run a mission, I was right there to get them. :) )

I started doing this a while ago too. It seems like at the point where you have sufficient income that war costs are minimally limiting for you then the default course of action for a target that refuses to undock for a week is to keep the war going for longer.

The typical end result of members remaining docked up for multiple weeks is corps dropping out of alliance and players dropping out of corp, which is a win.
Esme Moya Mencken
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2014-08-06 01:59:40 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Decs where the targets try to "deny me content" by staying docked resulted in me employing the same tactic; keeping the dec going and if I was particularly annoyed by the corp, I would stay logged in and docked even when I was not at the computer so they could never feel safe to play (and when they did get used to my presence and undocked to run a mission, I was right there to get them. :) )


See, and if I were the target of such a war, I'd really enjoy dissolving and reforming corporation (and when you realized the tactic and decided to declare war again, I'd be right there...to dissolve and reform again. :) )
Wraymond Arji
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2014-09-22 21:29:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Wraymond Arji
from the start, let me admit flat out.. I didn't bother to read if anyone else posted this or not, so no flaming. The wars may seem pointless to you, OP; but to the declaring party they serve a purpose to at least provide content. Therefore, ALL wars are of purpose and legit per game mechanics and CCP's design. EVE was never meant to be WOW in space. It's not even a game to be quite honest. It is an MMO sandbox for emergent experiences. The idea is that EVERYTHING is complicated and they have already over-simplified too many things to bring in customers instead of sticking true to form IMO, but that is the nature of it since CCP went public. Bottom line is that it is about overcoming challenges, not whining until the challenges are made easier to lower the bar to YOUR level. Step up YOUR game to meet the bar.

EDIT: If you can't do that on your own, it is designed to be where you then do that by bringing friends. Either way, there are plenty of ways to do just about anything in EVE. The most annoying thing I keep coming across is the widespread fear of doing anything differently, or trying new things. NOTHING in this game is linear and multiple alternate paths can all lead to the same outcome. Please stop begging that things get nerfed just because a small percentage can't figure out one of the multiple ways to get past a challenge.
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-09-23 09:31:06 UTC
Thorvade wrote:
Ok establishing from the start that I support High sec wars and combat, IF they have a true purpose. I believe they make the game dynamic and give choices meaning and danger.

I do NOT support repetitive and pointless wars that hinder high sec corps from being able to play the game.
If I mission and mine that is my choice. Getting ganked randomly is bad enough, but thats somewhat realistic. Cops are rarely around for muggings and murders. But being forced to NOT be able to play a game that we pay for is pretty ridiculous in the long run. I enjoy the space themes, I enjoy piloting spaceships, I enjoy many of the facets that EVE has to offer. But I do not enjoy sitting in a station spinning waiting for countdown timers to end.
Because thats what happens mostly. Thats the best way to get war decs to end and thats BS. Paying off pirates who are harrasing you seems counter intuitive at best.

If a war has a true purpose, like territory (but thats nullsec), monetary gain (griefing for money), or even because you were slighted.

When you are repeatedly decced by 2 man corps, 1 man corps running multiple accounts, etc etc. This is nothing more than people who are looking for free kills against the squishiest targets they can find, and that wont shoot back.

Its these wars that break high sec corps, scare off new players, and generally give way to nothing more than bullying and people who get their kicks from fighting things that cant shoot back.

This is a thread for specifically and useful arguments.

And yes I might be a carebear in EVE, but Ive served in actual combat in real life so I dont want to hear insults etc etc.


Im tired of pointless posts. I also have served in real combat in two wars. You should know that wars never serve any real purpose to begin with. At least in Eve when you dont want to pvp in a pvp game you could just uninstall. If you just want to mine and be left alone then play Minecraft. It has unlimited rocks you can smash and collect.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#66 - 2014-09-23 16:47:56 UTC
Shameless plug....

There is always the 4th option...

Drop corp, buy cheap PvP frigs, join Red vs Blue for the duration of the war and learn to fight a little.

One of my alliance leads from a long while ago made this suggestion when I was a noob and making the same complaint as the OP.

Some 6000+ kills later, I realized I enjoy the PvP aspect of eve.

A less shameless plug option... Drop corp and relocate. Eve's high sec is vast. Get out of the fommon caldari missioning grounds. You can find some great mission/mining hubs where even CODE does not tread that are still part of continous high sec.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#67 - 2014-09-24 00:32:34 UTC
Just drop and reform corp and brag over your 30-1 economic win. If you are too big to do that, and you still can't defend yourself against 1 man griefer corps, then you don't deserve to exist.
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-09-27 20:56:08 UTC
Eh Hi-Sec war decs.....really not fun.

First thing is to never fight on station. No reason too. You won't be breaking the tanks of the people you are fighting in under a minute realistically. You've not the combat skills for it. So make use of your insta!

Second thing is to pick a ship to fly in combat. As a mining corp you really should just go with Vexors. You should have good shield and drone skills already. No fuss topping them off and getting to be able to fly the mid size Gal drone boats.

So there you go. Make a little Vexor fleet (6-10) and don't fight off of station. Don't fight if you're lacking numbers. Don't fight on station!!! Don't let your fleet get kited out when you're off station (1-2 man corp will either set up for absolute brick tank for station games or kiting fit).

Far as not fighting there's no real place in Eve people will not be trying to blow you up, I would suggest if you are absolutely opposed to it, join one of the Null power blocs indy corps. Make sure they base fairly deep in. Don't show up with a lot of assets in case it is a scam.

Luck
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-09-27 21:38:09 UTC
Hmm, lets see the War Dec from a funny side.

The 2 man Corp pays to Concord to start a war. That is logical, war is money.
The fun part is: you pay the double at Concord to make them KOS from concord.
This could be over and over and each one of Corps doubles the amount to insane amounts.
Jegrey Dozer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2014-09-28 11:42:18 UTC
There already exists a way to completely dodge a wardec.

A solution that many of OP's would-be gankers and wardeccers and their ilk have vehemently tried to have CCP brand as an exploit so that it can not be practiced.

It involves creating a password protected channel exclusive to corp members so that everyone stays in contact, followed by every member dropping corp. Once the war is over, everyone rejoins the corp.

There is no reason why all members can not conduct their normal EvE activities while in an NPC corp.

The only reason I could imagine High Sec players can complain about wars is if they are completely unimaginative about what their options are.


To the OP:

Do not even begin to blame the low retention rate of new players because of wars in High Sec. That is bombastic and very wrong.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-09-29 09:56:36 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Decs where the targets try to "deny me content" by staying docked resulted in me employing the same tactic; keeping the dec going and if I was particularly annoyed by the corp, I would stay logged in and docked even when I was not at the computer so they could never feel safe to play (and when they did get used to my presence and undocked to run a mission, I was right there to get them. :) )

I started doing this a while ago too. It seems like at the point where you have sufficient income that war costs are minimally limiting for you then the default course of action for a target that refuses to undock for a week is to keep the war going for longer.

The typical end result of members remaining docked up for multiple weeks is corps dropping out of alliance and players dropping out of corp, which is a win.



Then just undock, get into cheap ships and FIGHT. Both sides get more fun than on the docked option. How hard is that to grasp.


We for example more than once stopped a war with targets that got our respect when they asked for a time so they would not collapse. But if you whine, make threads like this etc.. we shall never stop.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2014-09-29 09:58:18 UTC
Jegrey Dozer wrote:


Do not even begin to blame the low retention rate of new players because of wars in High Sec. That is bombastic and very wrong.



True, most wardec groups do not wardec corps of new people. BEcause they usually are too small or flying too cheap stuff to be worth the effort.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2014-09-29 10:00:01 UTC
Esme Moya Mencken wrote:
An option that hasn't been named...

There is an under-appreciated and somewhat controversial (but also sort of wonderful) alternative for small corps/corps that don't mind a quick disbanding:

Dissolve your corporation. Reform it seconds later with the same name (etc.). It costs 50m ISK to declare war. It costs 1.6m ISK to form a corporation (+ whatever for renting an HQ, posting a recruiting ad , etc). If you don't mind the 20 minute hassle of re-establishing your corporation, it's a lovely and troll-y response to try-hards attempting to inflate their killboards.

The ISK piece of it is sort of icing anyway, right? The guys dec'ing highsec mining corps don't care really about the cost of the dec. They also don't care really about making carebears better players. Carebears who don't want to fight and aren't skilled to fight, thus, have this little disappearing-reappearing trick as an option...for now.



Dissolving corp and reforming under same name with same people CAN BE PETITIONED. Keep doing that... see what will happen someday.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#74 - 2014-09-29 10:36:15 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Esme Moya Mencken wrote:
An option that hasn't been named...

There is an under-appreciated and somewhat controversial (but also sort of wonderful) alternative for small corps/corps that don't mind a quick disbanding:

Dissolve your corporation. Reform it seconds later with the same name (etc.). It costs 50m ISK to declare war. It costs 1.6m ISK to form a corporation (+ whatever for renting an HQ, posting a recruiting ad , etc). If you don't mind the 20 minute hassle of re-establishing your corporation, it's a lovely and troll-y response to try-hards attempting to inflate their killboards.

The ISK piece of it is sort of icing anyway, right? The guys dec'ing highsec mining corps don't care really about the cost of the dec. They also don't care really about making carebears better players. Carebears who don't want to fight and aren't skilled to fight, thus, have this little disappearing-reappearing trick as an option...for now.



Dissolving corp and reforming under same name with same people CAN BE PETITIONED. Keep doing that... see what will happen someday.


AFAIK, CCPs response to all things high sec war is, if the mechanics allow you to avoid a war, then its ok. Just as if the mechanics allow you to waste your time decing people who dont have 2 rifters to rub together, that is also ok.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-09-29 15:33:03 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Esme Moya Mencken wrote:
An option that hasn't been named...

There is an under-appreciated and somewhat controversial (but also sort of wonderful) alternative for small corps/corps that don't mind a quick disbanding:

Dissolve your corporation. Reform it seconds later with the same name (etc.). It costs 50m ISK to declare war. It costs 1.6m ISK to form a corporation (+ whatever for renting an HQ, posting a recruiting ad , etc). If you don't mind the 20 minute hassle of re-establishing your corporation, it's a lovely and troll-y response to try-hards attempting to inflate their killboards.

The ISK piece of it is sort of icing anyway, right? The guys dec'ing highsec mining corps don't care really about the cost of the dec. They also don't care really about making carebears better players. Carebears who don't want to fight and aren't skilled to fight, thus, have this little disappearing-reappearing trick as an option...for now.



Dissolving corp and reforming under same name with same people CAN BE PETITIONED. Keep doing that... see what will happen someday.


AFAIK, CCPs response to all things high sec war is, if the mechanics allow you to avoid a war, then its ok. Just as if the mechanics allow you to waste your time decing people who dont have 2 rifters to rub together, that is also ok.



Remakign the exact same name with the same members get you a warning at least . I know becuse my CEO of my first corp did that and got the warnign and was told to never do it again.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zylithi
Four Mouseketeers
#76 - 2014-10-01 05:51:16 UTC
I used to run one of these one man wardec wonder outfits, and I can tell you a thing or two.

You need to position your corp as one who can defend itself. People choose their risk appropriately. If you look like hardasses, they won't bother. If you look squishy, people will look deeper. By flying squishy ships, utterly failing other wars, and other things, people will dog pile on you really quickly. Some dumbass in an old corp of mine completely botched a Paladin fit and got the thing killed, the kill mail got spread around and suddenly we had 7 wars (900 vs. 80). Don't be that person.

If your corp is purely industrial, there is literally nothing wrong that that! However, to survive as a corp, you need to participate in the environment, and not rag on about it. You guys are industrial, you should easily be able to afford mercs. They usually come cheap, 500mil is normally the going rate, but may be higher depending on the target. If your corp literally cannot afford that price, even if each of you contributes a little, it may be wise to consider disbanding. 10 guys missioning for one hour can make that isk.

Oh, and stay out of the "merc contracts" channel unless you're looking for a null/lowsec contract. They all talk to each other. I once asked one of those corps for help and they decked us just because we talked to them.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2014-10-01 16:19:59 UTC
Zylithi wrote:

Oh, and stay out of the "merc contracts" channel unless you're looking for a null/lowsec contract. They all talk to each other. I once asked one of those corps for help and they decked us just because we talked to them.




Complete lies. Most of our work is exactly assistign against other wars, including other merc groups. I do not think any of the relevent groups have not yet been wardecced by us in contracts.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps
#78 - 2014-10-02 15:03:23 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Zylithi wrote:

Oh, and stay out of the "merc contracts" channel unless you're looking for a null/lowsec contract. They all talk to each other. I once asked one of those corps for help and they decked us just because we talked to them.




Complete lies. Most of our work is exactly assistign against other wars, including other merc groups. I do not think any of the relevent groups have not yet been wardecced by us in contracts.


The Merc contracts channel is legitimate. The Mercenary Corporations may talk to each other, but they also relentlessly war dec each other. If you want to hire someone, dont go in there crying about how your Orca got ganked. Find a Diplomat for a reputable group, and private convo them.


Badman

-Badman
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#79 - 2014-10-02 23:12:09 UTC
People requesting mercs in Merc Contracts only have problems if they want something unreasonable or aren't serious to begin with. Also people in the same channel are obviouslygoing to communicate with each other some of the time, that does not mean they won't take contracts against each other and approach those contracts in a professional manner.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#80 - 2014-10-15 21:46:27 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
If it cannot defend itself against a singular pilot, the only thing that's pointless is the existance of that corporation.


Not a matter of defending ones self when the target doesnt undock during your peak time but then when people log off the target undocks for an easy kill, which if he does come to attack he probably has an army of logi.

Been there, done that, kept training my massive hoard of skills

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith