These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Null Deal: A Statement from Sovereign Nullsec

First post First post
Author
Volmyr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#221 - 2014-09-29 07:33:30 UTC
seems legit, +1
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#222 - 2014-09-29 07:59:53 UTC
What is the measure of "occupancy base"?

I've read about this before. System index (and sov) strengthen with occupancy, rats killed, ore mined etc. Doesn't anyone see a bit of a problem with this? If you want to drop someone else's index, all you have to do is camp it (cloaked). People don't tend to rat or mine with reds in system do they.

Whilst we're at it let's go back to basics: What is the point of "sov" anyway?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#223 - 2014-09-29 08:21:13 UTC
Quote:

Increased Player Density

We believe that vast swathes of conquerable nullsec are essentially worthless to our line members and can only support the activity of a handful of players in each system. We would like to see the value of individual systems increased to support a dense ecosystem of players undocked and interacting within single system.


So.....let me get this straight: Instead of having thirty thousand renters spread over a dozen regions, the blocs can now fit all of them into a couple of systems (or constellations)? Geee, that isn't broken at all.

Currently, lowsec/npc entities can and have harassed renter alliances to the point where they lose thousands of members. Put them all in a single constellation, and it becomes trivial for the blocs to defend them against harassment. I have a great idea guys: Let's buff renter empires!Roll
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2014-09-29 08:34:11 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Miner Hottie wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
I don't have a problem with the suggestions, but they are not really needed to solve the issue of nullsec stagnation.

What is needed for that is less bloviating and more courage. There are multiple coalitions with significant capital fleets - and yet instead of engaging each other to create some actual content they prefer to sit in dry dock and complain about the blue donut. To the Goons, et al., instead of complaining and demanding unneeded CCP changes, why not just go deploy your fleets and see what you can accomplish in the current setup instead?


I don't know what game you play but less than a year ago the CFC and Rus super cap fleets laid waste to the flagship fleets of PL and N3. We did exactly what you ask of us. You might of heard it, it was the Bloodbath at BR5. Did this change anything apart from the price of Tritanium in Jita? No, the largest sov holding alliances in game are the PL and N3 renter allicances. Sonething else needs to change.


As I recall the battle would have let to decisive changes in the composition of nullsec but for the utter collapse of various CFC allies due to internal issues. To me that seems to show that the system works. What you need is to create a few more BR5's, and to follow up on them properly this time.

And the point is that the suggestions do nothing to create the conditions to make that large supercapital engagement more likely. They are geared towards getting smaller blocs to engage with larger ones - not towards getting the large blocs to directly engage with each other. And that fails to fix the fundamental malady of nullsec - a system of entrenched alliances who refuse to engage in the kind of total war that would really shake things up and allow new powerblocs to emerge.


Unfortunately you missed the key point, the agreement between the CFC and PL meant BoT space was always safe and the vacuum allowed BNI, not the Russians, to take Catch whilst NC. and S2N licked their wounds. At a time when smaller groups could and should have then sniped at the edges of Northern Alliance space, they didn't because sov mechanics still massively favour defence. BR5 only happened due to sov being dropped inavertently, not due to ninja plexing or someother form of active engagement by the CFC and Rus.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#225 - 2014-09-29 08:55:10 UTC
+1

As a non-nullsec small gang PVP pilot, these are the kind of changes that would make me interested in fighting over 0.0 territory.
WILLY TROPICAL
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2014-09-29 09:17:20 UTC
What you are asking for is already invented: rent and let others to do the boring job.

No fleet pings
No structure bashing
No anchor+f1 epic battles
No tidi
Farm all you want in upgraded systems
Live surrounded by blues
Access to JBs
Docking rights
Small scale pvp with other renters or your own corp
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#227 - 2014-09-29 09:18:45 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2014-09-29 09:21:52 UTC
Capt Robertson wrote:
+1 We Want Fights


Just reset all your blues and have all the fights you want.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#229 - 2014-09-29 09:33:19 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Capt Robertson wrote:
+1 We Want Fights


Just reset all your blues and have all the fights you want.


That is treating the symptom, not the cause. Look at your current situation in Catch. CVA and Hero are just being toyed with to provide fun for PL and NCDOT because that's all there is to be had right now. A wargame between two strategic allies. This war is a complete farce.
Orkasm
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#230 - 2014-09-29 09:38:15 UTC
Resubbed just to +1 this, Make it happen CCP.
Westar Egdald
Doomheim
#231 - 2014-09-29 09:50:02 UTC
100% goon scam.
Venetian Tar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#232 - 2014-09-29 09:55:28 UTC
Orkasm wrote:
Resubbed just to +1 this, Make it happen CCP.


:cripes:

I don't hate you, I'm just not necessarily excited about your existance.

Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#233 - 2014-09-29 09:59:18 UTC
The proposal is simply good common sense for the most part, and occupancy-based sov and higher economic density are inarguable. I unreservedly support that part of the "Null Deal".

But I can't help noticing the hook in the bait: the requested NPC stations in each region. The coalition use for this is blindingly obvious: invulnerable staging points and cache stores. They will be of limited use for attackers, but extremely useful for imperial defenders, and the reason they've been asked for is to allow the existing blocs to maintain domination and influence, albeit not direct ownership, over their existing territories.

No secret has been made of the plans to set up large caches of ships in order to work around curbs on power projection: these stations are wanted for exactly this strategy.

By all means lets ask CCP to add more NPC space - that's a drum I've been banging for a long time now - but the way to do this is not to gift the powerblocks with free indestructible staging points in every region, but to add 2-3 more Curse/Stain style regions to the map, especially the east and north, with plenty of medical stations (Venal only has 2 IIRC) and pirate agents so that it's not trivial to hellcamp NPC based groups who become more than a nuisance. Place these regions such that those 0.0 regions which are currently far from any NPC space are now within range. That will accomplish the stated goal of "generate platforms for small-scale PVP content and launching points for smaller alliances. "

A full sized region has the resources to maintain a group that can be a realistic threat, not just harass hapless miners every now and then.
Securitas Protector
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#234 - 2014-09-29 10:00:58 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.

Can you please ask CCP to comment, I'm sure we're all interested in what they have to say.
Hademar Drake
Carebears -With- Guns
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2014-09-29 10:01:37 UTC
You want content ? reset your big blue donut. - want big fights move to provi - oh wait most of the big colitions have because they cannot risk loosing there space
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#236 - 2014-09-29 10:10:14 UTC
100% behind you guys who wrote the letter

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#237 - 2014-09-29 10:23:15 UTC
Who do I talk to about renting NPC nullsec systems in the middle of SOV holding alliances?

...

Tragot Gomndor
Three Sword Inc
#238 - 2014-09-29 10:29:32 UTC
I hate 0.0 cuz of large entities + tidi and empty space. There is almost no in between.
If any changes change that, +1.

NONONONONONO TO CAPS IN HIGHSEC NO

Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#239 - 2014-09-29 10:34:39 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
The proposal is simply good common sense for the most part, and occupancy-based sov and higher economic density are inarguable. I unreservedly support that part of the "Null Deal".

But I can't help noticing the hook in the bait: the requested NPC stations in each region. The coalition use for this is blindingly obvious: invulnerable staging points and cache stores. They will be of limited use for attackers, but extremely useful for imperial defenders, and the reason they've been asked for is to allow the existing blocs to maintain domination and influence, albeit not direct ownership, over their existing territories.

No secret has been made of the plans to set up large caches of ships in order to work around curbs on power projection: these stations are wanted for exactly this strategy.

By all means lets ask CCP to add more NPC space - that's a drum I've been banging for a long time now - but the way to do this is not to gift the powerblocks with free indestructible staging points in every region, but to add 2-3 more Curse/Stain style regions to the map, especially the east and north, with plenty of medical stations (Venal only has 2 IIRC) and pirate agents so that it's not trivial to hellcamp NPC based groups who become more than a nuisance. Place these regions such that those 0.0 regions which are currently far from any NPC space are now within range. That will accomplish the stated goal of "generate platforms for small-scale PVP content and launching points for smaller alliances. "

A full sized region has the resources to maintain a group that can be a realistic threat, not just harass hapless miners every now and then.


I'll go against the anti-MOA propaganda and state that NPC stations in nullsec do make a difference. While Mordus Angels (MOA) are too small on their own to threaten CFC SOV they are trying (often successfully unless we actively camp them in) to harass the surrounding area. They are not totally unsuccessful and I think that opening up more places like this would make it possible for other groups to live in the midst of the SOV holders and cause havoc.

I know that I love shooting random dudes basing out of NPC nullsec (though I most often end up as a lossmail). I prefer having reds/neuts going through our systems opposed to it being totally dead (like when my old CFC alliance was living in Branch).
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#240 - 2014-09-29 10:36:18 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Who do I talk to about renting NPC nullsec systems in the middle of SOV holding alliances?


You can contact me. Fair offer will be given.