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Crime & Punishment

 
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Harder punishment for High-Sec carebears
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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-09-25 13:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Its only fair that both sides have their own thread.

Viola!

To start out:


  • Buff rats in belts. Give them web/scram/smartbombs. The longer someone sits in a belt, the stronger class of rat spawns in.
  • NPC corps of opposing factions are at war by default, mirroring FW.
  • Remove local. If you want to see local, youll need to be in a corp, and the corp will pay a tax to connect to the local intel.
  • Once wardecced, you do not have the ablity to leave corp at all. The button is grayed out. The only way out is to surrender or win. If the defender (and allies) beats the aggressor after 1 week (isk war), the aggressor is unable to declare war for two weeks after that.
  • Move ALL level 4 missions to lowsec, and increase the payouts.
  • Remove highsec incursions, or dramatically decrease the payouts. There is no risk for the current meta.
  • Ships in NPC corps must pay docking fees each time they dock up.
  • NPC players cant undock in anything larger than a cruiser hull.
  • If you are operating in a lower-sec part of highsec, you get pirate FACPO-style response if you have a super-positive sec status.
  • Killing a -5 or below in highsec adds "tags" to their wreck, purchasable by NPC's at CONCORD stations (similar to WH loot). Does not spawn if CONCORD is on the KM. The more badass the pirate, the more ISK his tags are worth.
  • Miners whom deplete a belt are fined, and assessed a sec status hit.


Edit: Allow players to JOIN FACPO corps. FACPO-players would be able to engage the same level of sec status player that would have spawned the NPC version. (-2 in 1.0, ect)

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-09-25 17:27:47 UTC
6.5 maybe a 7 even, not bad keep it coming

Hey guys.
Iain Cariaba
#3 - 2014-09-25 17:32:49 UTC
Time to dig out the hip waders, tear flood is going to be deep on this one.Big smile
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-09-25 17:37:04 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:
6.5 maybe a 7 even, not bad keep it coming


Sad

I figured at least a 7.5 or 8...

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-09-25 17:38:19 UTC
With that kind of plaform Leto Thule you'd get my vote for CSM Cool
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#6 - 2014-09-25 18:37:14 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Time to dig out the hip waders, tear flood is going to be deep on this one.Big smile
Hip waders? I'm considering breaking out an Ark

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2014-09-25 18:39:44 UTC
I've been thinking along these lines in light of the recent spate of "protect me CCP" threads. I think an interesting solution might be to penalize both parties in any altercations.

Assumptions:
Concord pays part of its budget by the administration of war DEC fees.
Concord administrative controls sets security penalties and rewards.
Concord does no investigation of events, as shown by noob baiting, it just blasts everyone involved and drops security ratings.

So to keep with that thinking then logically then concord should just come in with smart bombs blazing and clear the whole grid with security hits for all.

This pushes the concord pay us wardec racket. This clears up problems like jita undock and forces players to be smarter about where and how the operate. And finally it solves the is-box fleet question in one simple step.

It is just "CCP protect me" taken in a very extreme form really.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2014-09-25 18:44:39 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
With that kind of plaform Leto Thule you'd get my vote for CSM Cool


I promise, if I am elected to the CSM, that I will enjoy my free trip to iceland, and get extremely wasted while lobbying for nerfs to the nerfers.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#9 - 2014-09-25 18:50:50 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Renegade Heart wrote:
With that kind of plaform Leto Thule you'd get my vote for CSM Cool


I promise, if I am elected to the CSM, that I will enjoy my free trip to iceland, and get extremely wasted while lobbying for nerfs to the nerfers.

Give this man a seat right now!

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2014-09-25 18:54:59 UTC
+1 a vote for Thule is a vote for a safer and more civil Hi-Sec
Absolutely Not Analt
Carebears on Fire
#11 - 2014-09-25 19:05:13 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Renegade Heart wrote:
With that kind of plaform Leto Thule you'd get my vote for CSM Cool


I promise, if I am elected to the CSM, that I will enjoy my free trip to iceland, and get extremely wasted while lobbying for nerfs to the nerfers.

Give this man a seat right now!


+1

Eve is a multi player game. And you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin Being meh at two things is not better than being great at one. - Lugh Crow-Slave
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#12 - 2014-09-25 19:13:54 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Its only fair that both sides have their own thread.

Viola!

To start out:


  • Buff rats in belts. Give them web/scram/smartbombs. The longer someone sits in a belt, the stronger class of rat spawns in.
  • NPC corps of opposing factions are at war by default, mirroring FW.
  • Remove local. If you want to see local, youll need to be in a corp, and the corp will pay a tax to connect to the local intel.
  • Once wardecced, you do not have the ablity to leave corp at all. The button is grayed out. The only way out is to surrender or win. If the defender (and allies) beats the aggressor after 1 week (isk war), the aggressor is unable to declare war for two weeks after that.
  • Move ALL level 4 missions to lowsec, and increase the payouts.
  • Remove highsec incursions, or dramatically decrease the payouts. There is no risk for the current meta.
  • Ships in NPC corps must pay docking fees each time they dock up.
  • NPC players cant undock in anything larger than a cruiser hull.
  • If you are operating in a lower-sec part of highsec, you get pirate FACPO-style response if you have a super-positive sec status.
  • Killing a -5 or below in highsec adds "tags" to their wreck, purchasable by NPC's at CONCORD stations (similar to WH loot). Does not spawn if CONCORD is on the KM. The more badass the pirate, the more ISK his tags are worth.
  • Miners whom deplete a belt are fined, and assessed a sec status hit.


Edit: Allow players to JOIN FACPO corps. FACPO-players would be able to engage the same level of sec status player that would have spawned the NPC version. (-2 in 1.0, ect)


Being unable to leave corp if you are under war dec is unrealistic. I've lived in nullsec for most of my 10 years in EVE and I've seldom had a reprieve from being under wardec. This should also be a tip to anyone who considers rage-decing a null sec entity. Logistics are ALREADY organised around wardecs because wardecs are constant. Adding one more wardec to the list isn't going to change things one iota. All it's going to do is make YOU a target.

As for high-sec carebears. We all need them. We need cheap minerals, we need a good supply of T1 and T2 items, we sometimes like the meta 4 stuff to be on the market. If you ask me, I don't give a rat's patoot if someone in high-sec is making a decent wage keeping the market stocked. I appreciate the fact that they do it. full stop.

Even though I'm one of those people who can literally make every T1 and T2 module/ship I need, my personal doom scenario in EVE would be if the supply chain broke down and I had to do all that work myself. For some strange reason people moan about so-called care bears but the way I see it, they are not only contributing, but CRITICAL to the EVE economy. I'll never complain about care bears because they save me massive amounts of time. In some ways this is an approximation of the real world economy too.... outsourcing offers speed for a price and it's not for no reason that it's one of the biggest industries on the planet.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-09-25 19:16:38 UTC
I support all of these suggestions and would vote for Leto Thule.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-09-25 19:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:


Being unable to leave corp if you are under war dec is unrealistic. I've lived in nullsec for most of my 10 years in EVE and I've seldom had a reprieve from being under wardec. This should also be a tip to anyone who considers rage-decing a null sec entity. Logistics are ALREADY organised around wardecs because wardecs are constant. Adding one more wardec to the list isn't going to change things one iota. All it's going to do is make YOU a target.

As for high-sec carebears. We all need them. We need cheap minerals, we need a good supply of T1 and T2 items, we sometimes like the meta 4 stuff to be on the market. If you ask me, I don't give a rat's patoot if someone in high-sec is making a decent wage keeping the market stocked. I appreciate the fact that they do it. full stop.

Even though I'm one of those people who can literally make every T1 and T2 module/ship I need, my personal doom scenario in EVE would be if the supply chain broke down and I had to do all that work myself. For some strange reason people moan about so-called care bears but the way I see it, they are not only contributing, but CRITICAL to the EVE economy. I'll never complain about care bears because they save me massive amounts of time. In some ways this is an approximation of the real world economy too.... outsourcing offers speed for a price and it's not for no reason that it's one of the biggest industries on the planet.


The problem is not the care bears, Tinu. The problem is the fact that someone in highsec is making more money than someone in nullsec. Carebearing (in any sec) is in fact, an unavoidable cornerstone of EvE. We all do it if we must to make money. However, the repeated requests to make EvE's high sec a candyland risk free zone are what we must stop.

As for your views on wardecs, if someone makes themselves a target, so be it. That's their call. And being unable to leave is NOT unrealistic. Firstly, it would make players more cautious of the corps they join.

Take me, for example.

If you will read my corp history, youll see a deep, dark, nasty surprise.

I was a member of Firesworn nation. If you dont recollect, thats the alliance headed by RSWfire, whom decided it was a great idea to **** off Vimsy Vortis, Psychotic Monk, Cannibal Kane, and the rest of the BU community, leading his group of mostly-new and industrial players into a meatgrinder.

I was new. I didnt know the difference. I DIDNT RESEARCH MY CORP.

I should have to live with the consequences of my decisions.

If the USA gets wardecced by canada (lol), I cant decide to leave the country. ( Well, if I did, they still tax me.... seriously...)

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-09-25 19:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
This should also be a tip to anyone who considers rage-decing a null sec entity. Logistics are ALREADY organised around wardecs because wardecs are constant. Adding one more wardec to the list isn't going to change things one iota. All it's going to do is make YOU a target.


Have you seen the stats on the marmite war dec on brave newbies? That's a war dec corp vs a null sec entity, and marmite are winning by a huge margin. Of course sometimes the opposite is true. TRI are doing okay against them atm.

Also, many of us were carebears once. But many learn that the game can offer more fun. What is the problem encouraging players to increase their fun? I don't think carebears are a problem though. The real problem is those who want to change the game to suit carebears even more.

Who really came to EvE to become a carebear? What? I can accept if players do that but there are better choices of game out there for those guys. I picked EvE because I wanted to blow stuff up in a complex world filled with other people.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-09-25 19:55:10 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:

Who really came to EvE to become a carebear?


I DID!!!

I had absolutely no idea what it was about.

I thank Break-a-wish, Cannibal Kane, and Psychotic Monk for showing me that EvE had more to it than shooting red crosses!

Carebears, I am proof! You can change too!

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#17 - 2014-09-25 20:00:54 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:


The problem is not the care bears, Tinu. The problem is the fact that someone in highsec is making more money than someone in nullsec.



I really couldn't give a rat's ass about this. In terms of reward vs. risk, high-sec is (and always has been) a pretty good deal.

It's also boring as snot for people who actually play EVE the way it was intended. That said, there are a great many players who tuf-tuf around high sec and support the PVP habits of the relatively limited number of players who fancy themselves the EVE elite.

The fact of teh matter is, however, that the chest thumping too-much-chest-hair swaggalicious minority who think they're too sexy for their kestrels are actually not the majority of EVE players at all. Moreover, we owe our lifestyle to those who putter around and fill the market with the things we buy.

Personally, it's doesn't matter to me at all if someone makes their money on modules that they made in high-sec, low-sec or null-sec. In fact, economically speaking, the high-sec producers are my best friends becasue they can make things with the least amount of overhead. If a high-sec producer becomes rich.... MEH.... who cares. What matters is that the economy works.

This whole idea that nullsec should be the only major isk faucet is a bunch of arrogant crap, imho.

T-
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-09-25 20:08:53 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Renegade Heart wrote:

Who really came to EvE to become a carebear?


I DID!!!

I had absolutely no idea what it was about.

I thank Break-a-wish, Cannibal Kane, and Psychotic Monk for showing me that EvE had more to it than shooting red crosses!

Carebears, I am proof! You can change too!


Well I am wrong a lot, so that is proof I guess. Good job those guys showed you the light!
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-09-25 20:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Thule
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:


This whole idea that nullsec should be the only major isk faucet is a bunch of arrogant crap, imho.

T-



You sir, are looking for a fight that doesnt exist. I am not saying nullsec should be the only isk faucet, and I am damn sure not a highsec chest beater. I barely even venture there. That does not change my views on the effects nerfs to highsec have on the rest of EvE.

EvE is based on risk vs reward, correct? ( Yes ) Ok good.

My point is not that Highsec shouldnt be able to sustain players, my point is that BETTER ways to make money should come with more risks. I dont care where things are manufactured, but I DO care that nobody missions in lowsec because they can make just as much money in highsec. Industry doesnt even factor into what I am saying.

Its the point of conflict drivers. If there is no reason to go to non-secure space, nobody will.

So yes, I do in fact think that you should be able to make substantially more ISK by living in Null, Low, or WH space. Why? Because its dangerous.

Edit: To further clarify, you seem to be thinking I have some desire to fight industrial players or mess with the economy. I dont. I want to see the game expand, and I want to see players attracted to other areas. The only way that happens.... is to give those areas something that cannot be found within the security blanket of highsec.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-09-25 20:20:23 UTC
I wouldn't object at all to hisec having all the most profitable avenues around if the denizens didn't then screetch to the top of their lungs at any spot of adversity or interruption by another player.

Hisec is safer that it was when I started with nerfs and safeties. Mechanics that could get you killed are blocked and have double check messages. And yet the crys still echo up the mountains and across the forums.
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