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Why EvE subscription is low (A newbro perspective)
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Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-09-25 10:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanz Hrible
So I've been in the game for about a month and I have made several observations on the game from a completely fresh set of eyes on the game..

A new player wanting to explore, trade, or mine is highsec is completely free to do so- But beware joining a player corp- because you'll likely get war dec'd by a corp such as the Marmite Collective and you'll be shut down financially unless your corp pays them for surrender. So be prepared to hire a freight company to move your stuff for you.

A new player may join a powerful nullsec alliance and have Sov space to play in- But don't go exploring, because you'll be locked down by a warp disruption bubble by a player that has a 20million SP on you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

A new player is free to make isk through faction warfare- But that new player likely won't have the DPS for the faction spawns on the complexes- and again, if another player shows up, don't expect a fair fight, because that player will not be a fellow newbro and the fight will be anything but balanced.

I really enjoy how deep and immersive the game is, with so many options- I do, but the way this game seems to be played is "hide in the shadows until you think you can sucker punch a newbro, and run away if anything else shows up"

I don't fly ships I can't afford, I'm not quitting the game, and I don't have isk problems- I'm having fun doing what I do, but it just seems like I'm limited to running with fleets in nullsec since I have no way to defend myself from rudes that have been playing the game for years and enjoy picking on people who've barely started.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-09-25 10:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Hanz Hrible wrote:
So I've been in the game for about a month and I have made several observations on the game from a completely fresh set of eyes on the game..

A new player wanting to explore, trade, or mine is highsec is completely free to do so- But beware joining a player corp- because you'll likely get war dec'd by a corp such as the Marmite Collective and you'll be shut down financially unless your corp pays them for surrender. So be prepared to hire a freight company to move your stuff for you.

A new player may join a powerful nullsec alliance and have Sov space to play in- But don't go exploring, because you'll be locked down by a warp disruption bubble by a player that has a 20million SP on you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

A new player is free to make isk through faction warfare- But that new player likely won't have the DPS for the faction spawns on the complexes- and again, if another player shows up, don't expect a fair fight, because that player will not be a fellow newbro and the fight will be anything but balanced.

I really enjoy how deep and immersive the game is, with so many options- I do, but the way this game seems to be played is "hide in the shadows until you think you can sucker punch a newbro, and run away if anything else shows up"


1. Then join a proper corp. I know plenty of corps who hardly get wardecced. Those that get wardecced by Marmite or anybody else made themselfs targets.

2. Then learn the basics on null-sec movement and you wouldn't care about bubbles anymore (tacs, no straight warps, intel, jump bridges).

3. Uhm, defensive plexes don't require shooting, you can D-scan and see others incoming.....]

* I know a guy who was less then 2 weeks old when she went to low-sec and started fighting old vets (of which one of them was in a channel with me and her and he was very very impressed by the new player)



So...fail + fail + fail = meh, let's keep it civil, but let's just say that none of your points hold anything of value.



Quote:
I'm having fun doing what I do, but it just seems like I'm limited to running with fleets in nullsec since I have no way to defend myself from rudes that have been playing the game for years and enjoy picking on people who've barely started.


Yes you have, intel and knowledge (the last one is important)....

If you see something on D-scan that you can't take...warp out.

All points you have pointed out have NOTHING to do with being new, it has to do with the choices and attitude of the PLAYER behind the character.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Kousaka Otsu Shigure
#3 - 2014-09-25 10:19:20 UTC
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.

Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave

Current Project Status: What can I make with these minerals?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-09-25 10:20:13 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
So I've been in the game for about a month and I have made several observations on the game from a completely fresh set of eyes on the game..

A new player wanting to explore, trade, or mine is highsec is completely free to do so- But beware joining a player corp- because you'll likely get war dec'd by a corp such as the Marmite Collective and you'll be shut down financially unless your corp pays them for surrender. So be prepared to hire a freight company to move your stuff for you.

A new player may join a powerful nullsec alliance and have Sov space to play in- But don't go exploring, because you'll be locked down by a warp disruption bubble by a player that has a 20million SP on you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

A new player is free to make isk through faction warfare- But that new player likely won't have the DPS for the faction spawns on the complexes- and again, if another player shows up, don't expect a fair fight, because that player will not be a fellow newbro and the fight will be anything but balanced.

I really enjoy how deep and immersive the game is, with so many options- I do, but the way this game seems to be played is "hide in the shadows until you think you can sucker punch a newbro, and run away if anything else shows up"

I don't fly ships I can't afford, I'm not quitting the game, and I don't have isk problems- I'm having fun doing what I do, but it just seems like I'm limited to running with fleets in nullsec since I have no way to defend myself from rudes that have been playing the game for years and enjoy picking on people who've barely started.

oh rudes i thought it said nudes

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-09-25 10:22:03 UTC
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.




But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-09-25 10:23:47 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.




But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.


It isn't.

If you know where to looks. Plenty of GOOD new player friendly corps around, plenty of new player friendly community channels around that can help you.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-09-25 10:27:29 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.




But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.


It isn't.

If you know where to looks. Plenty of GOOD new player friendly corps around, plenty of new player friendly community channels around that can help you.





I've joined a very good, new player friendly corp that I'm enjoying quite well- but again the problem points to "knowing where to look". This isn't about me and my frustrations.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#8 - 2014-09-25 10:27:42 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
So I've been in the game for about a month and I have made several observations on the game from a completely fresh set of eyes on the game..

A new player wanting to explore, trade, or mine is highsec is completely free to do so- But beware joining a player corp- because you'll likely get war dec'd by a corp such as the Marmite Collective and you'll be shut down financially unless your corp pays them for surrender. So be prepared to hire a freight company to move your stuff for you.

A new player may join a powerful nullsec alliance and have Sov space to play in- But don't go exploring, because you'll be locked down by a warp disruption bubble by a player that has a 20million SP on you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

A new player is free to make isk through faction warfare- But that new player likely won't have the DPS for the faction spawns on the complexes- and again, if another player shows up, don't expect a fair fight, because that player will not be a fellow newbro and the fight will be anything but balanced.

I really enjoy how deep and immersive the game is, with so many options- I do, but the way this game seems to be played is "hide in the shadows until you think you can sucker punch a newbro, and run away if anything else shows up"

I don't fly ships I can't afford, I'm not quitting the game, and I don't have isk problems- I'm having fun doing what I do, but it just seems like I'm limited to running with fleets in nullsec since I have no way to defend myself from rudes that have been playing the game for years and enjoy picking on people who've barely started.


That is true, but not only for eve. You have to learn every game, and EVE is a lot to learn in fact.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Kousaka Otsu Shigure
#9 - 2014-09-25 10:30:45 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.


But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.


I would say other MMOs are the same, with their lowbies doing what lowbies are capable of. I'm tempted to say you're just ranting, but c'mon man give it (game)time.

I suggest to spend more time reading about your concerns (eg. wardec mechanics) and applying it to your circumstances. There was actually one thread here in GD about 'how easy it was to avoid wardecs'.

Archiver, Software Developer and Data Slave

Current Project Status: What can I make with these minerals?
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#10 - 2014-09-25 10:31:13 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.
'Those issues' can be summarised as being bad at the game, which is to be expected when you are new to a complex game. All of them can be avoided fairly easily if you learn or ask how.

But, you don't really want to learn, you just want to 'Grr Vets', right? Since the 'issues' you mentioned have little to nothing to do with character age, but somehow all come down to evil older characters molesting hapless newbies when you talk about them.

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Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-09-25 10:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanz Hrible
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.


But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.


I would say other MMOs are the same, with their lowbies doing what lowbies are capable of. I'm tempted to say you're just ranting, but c'mon man give it (game)time.

I suggest to spend more time reading about your concerns (eg. wardec mechanics) and applying it to your circumstances. There was actually one thread here in GD about 'how easy it was to avoid wardecs'.




I'm not ranting- these are legit frustrations of a new player- and I will eat my shoe if I'm the only new player to ever have these thoughts.


Crumplecorn wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.
'Those issues' can be summarised as being bad at the game, which is to be expected when you are new to a complex game. All of them can be avoided fairly easily if you learn or ask how.

But, you don't really want to learn, you just want to 'Grr Vets', right? Since the 'issues' you mentioned have little to nothing to do with character age, but somehow all come down to evil older characters molesting hapless newbies when you talk about them.


I didn't say I was quitting- and I didn't say that I'm not learning. I said that these issues can really get to new players.
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#12 - 2014-09-25 10:38:16 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.




But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.


I think you both make valid points.

Newbros are definitely exploited and abused by quite a sizeable minority of the existing player base (be honest, we've all seen it). But that kind of stuff is easily avoided (it's really trivially easy to avoid!) with just a little experience and advice. Many aspects of the game only open up after spending some time learning and establishing relationships.

Kind of a conundrum.

Most of my RL friends who have tried EVE quit without ever converting from trial to sub. A few subbed but then quit because they felt they could not invest enough time or attention in the game to achieve anything they felt was meaningful or worth the effort. None are currently playing, which is kind of sad.

Honestly, I currently have the time to "tinker" with EVE and do some stuff in game, but nothing like the time (or the willpower) necessary to do anything lasting and/or meaningful (like anything relating to sovereignty, for instance).

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
Faenir Antollare
For Ever And Ever
#13 - 2014-09-25 10:38:48 UTC
Stick with it Bro, as an 18month+ noob I would say that that Crazy Dutch Guy nails it quite nicely, sometimes this life is only as hard as you make it for yourself, separating the wheat from the chaff is your first major hurdle and once overcome the universe is quite literally yours.

Les

RiP BooBoo 26/7/1971 - 23/7/2014 My Lady My Love My Life My Wife
Vyl Vit
#14 - 2014-09-25 10:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
What I get from the OP is a desire to be on top ASAP, then play from there. The long climb to the top isn't copascetic with the short-attention span, instant gratification mentality that pervades our culture these days. Sure, CCP could decide that market share is worth pursuing, and alter the nature of the game accordingly. But, then, EVE would no longer be EVE, and such a decision would indeed be monumental.

The telling point is a lack of desire to incrementally, over time, build ones character to the quality of at last being able to run with the big dogs. It's as though the young pup sees the big dogs and wants to take off NOW. That can't happen here if EVE is to remain EVE. There's no doubt "we" (the EVE community) have no desire to see our little sandbox changed to meet the desires of people who like games such as those. In fact, we think it's easier for such people to....
...FIND ANOTHER GAME.

TYVM, have a nice day. Shocked

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Tamazaki
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-09-25 10:42:22 UTC
When I was a month into the game I had very little idea about nullsec alliances and issues surrounding 'sov' space. I'm a little suspicious of people who give a 'newbro' account of such things P
Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-09-25 10:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanz Hrible
Vyl Vit wrote:
What I get from the OP is a desire to be on top ASAP, then play from there. The long climb to the top isn't copascetic with the short-attention span, instant gratification mentality that pervades our culture these days. Sure, CCP could decide that market share is worth pursuing, and alter the nature of the game accordingly. But, then, EVE would no longer be EVE, and such a decision would indeed be monumental.

The telling point is a lack of desire to incrementally, over time, build ones character to the quality of at last being able to run with the big dogs. It's as though the young pup sees the big dogs and wants to take off NOW. That can't happen here if EVE is to remain EVE. There's no doubt "we" (the EVE community) have no desire to see our little sandbox changed to meet the desires of people who like games such as those. In fact, we think it's easier for such people to....
...FIND ANOTHER GAME.

TYVM, have a nice day. Shocked



I'm not sure your post was very helpful, "find another game" is easy. But actually sitting down and working out how to help truly new players deal with many of the game's pitfalls that they will inevitably fall into obviously requires critical thinking- and well, that just takes too much work.


Tamazaki wrote:
When I was a month into the game I had very little idea about nullsec alliances and issues surrounding 'sov' space. I'm a little suspicious of people who give a 'newbro' account of such things P


One of my favorite youtube streamers started playing EvE- and he formed up with a group of players that are part of the alliance I'm in- so ergo, I learned pretty quick about it and joined up with them as well. They're excellent teachers and my griffon and maluus actually get things done.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-09-25 10:51:07 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
Kousaka Otsu Shigure wrote:
Sorry but a month into the game will give you a really superficial insight of what eve is. So your OP is kinda not fair for the rest of us.

Try to give it at least a year.




But that's the issue, at most a player can only get 21 days before deciding to sub or not, and it's extremely difficult for a new player to circumvent those issues in that time- they get frustrated.. they leave.


It isn't.

If you know where to looks. Plenty of GOOD new player friendly corps around, plenty of new player friendly community channels around that can help you.





I've joined a very good, new player friendly corp that I'm enjoying quite well- but again the problem points to "knowing where to look". This isn't about me and my frustrations.


But this is one of the ways eve is different to hand-holding character-centered fantasy MMO's. If you're not willing to take the incentive, you'll get chewed up and spat out extremely fast.

Should NPE be improved? Yes, there is always ways to improve it. Should people be able to enter without using brains and taking beginning of their eve career as not a challenge? No.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#18 - 2014-09-25 10:55:34 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
I didn't say I was quitting- and I didn't say that I'm not learning. I said that these issues can really get to new players.
And I'm saying they aren't issues.

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Hanz Hrible
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-09-25 10:59:25 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Hanz Hrible wrote:
I didn't say I was quitting- and I didn't say that I'm not learning. I said that these issues can really get to new players.
And I'm saying they aren't issues.



For someone new to the game they certainly can be- It takes time and patience to overcome the adversity a day 1 player faces. Maybe I realize that, but I'm certain I'm in the minority.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#20 - 2014-09-25 11:28:06 UTC
Hanz Hrible wrote:
It takes time and patience to overcome the adversity a day 1 player faces
Yep. Why else would you bother to continue playing?

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