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Un-announced Interface Changes

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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#1 - 2014-09-24 21:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangeresque Too
So when logging into Sisi, I noticed some not-insignificant changes to the buttons on the station services tab for Guests, Agents, and Offices.

We then inquired about the need to change something that wasn't broken (change for the sake of change), and the response was "because they were hard to find". Then I compared the old to every other part of the overview, seems all the tabs and buttons are the same, and yet somehow these specific ones were too "hard to find" and needed to be changed?

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr261/jn_photo/EvE/button_change_ocean_zps6fe77772.jpg
(Top half is old, bottom half is new)

Numerous times in previous patches these types of changes get made, but never actually defended and seem to be change for the sake of change. If someone had issues with these particular buttons then it stands to reason they would have issues with every other button and tab in the interface. I'm not saying they aren't easier to see now, but they weren't exactly difficult to find before.

Can we get any further actual reasoning behind these changes or are they really just changes for the sake of change?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2014-09-24 21:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
:CCP:

I wonder: These huge buttons everywhere... is CCP actually trying to port EVE to tablets?

Unannounced stuff and unexplained stuff is also most common these days for CCP, just have a look at their latest patch notes.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#3 - 2014-09-24 23:01:13 UTC
Though typically the patch notes mention fixing things days/weeks after they broke them, which they didn't mean to break by changing things they didn't tell us about beforehand.

What I would like to see is CCP come out and actually give us a detailed list of what they are changing and why, and especially for something like these buttons (which are the same buttons used all over the game) why these specific buttons are different than the others.

I am tired of all of these changes for the sake of change without backing the change with reasons, legit reasons.
Noriko Mai
#4 - 2014-09-25 06:32:21 UTC
It's already in the changes list for over a week (see: Sticky Oceanus now on Singularity) along with some other new buttons. The others don't look that different, though. I can understand that they redo this kind of stuff to overhaul their UI and I guess it's not just a change of some buttons for the sake of it, but comes with the rework of their GUI Toolkit. In my opinion it's a step forward on the way to a more modern looking and less clunky UI. One thing that bothers me is that the Station Service window can't be minimized to top anymore.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2014-09-25 07:23:55 UTC
I mean these patch notes:

Quote:
  • New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.



UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6 - 2014-09-25 09:08:42 UTC
Those buttons.. I noticed them too. They look and feel very out-of-place compared to the rest of the UI.
Noriko Mai
#7 - 2014-09-25 10:34:17 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I mean these patch notes:

Quote:
  • New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.


This is a totaly normal patch note if they fixed some exploits. What do you want? A detailed explanation of the fixed exploit so everyone knows about it and can try to find a workaround for that fix?

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2014-09-25 11:55:06 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I mean these patch notes:

Quote:
  • New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.





As Noriko points out, that's very much the case when we fix exploits.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#9 - 2014-09-25 15:12:00 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
As Noriko points out, that's very much the case when we fix exploits.

How bout some patchnotes that explain what the patch was the other day? That is what we are talking about...the little patches with no info...at all.

Also, how about answering the initial question? (usually CCP dodge...answer the 'easy' question...ignore the original one)

New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!

An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#10 - 2014-09-25 15:43:58 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
It's already in the changes list for over a week (see: Sticky Oceanus now on Singularity) along with some other new buttons..

Except that the list those are mentioned in were posted by a normal user account, not a CCP Dev.

Also, without a legit reason for making these buttons different and larger (seems to be a theme on the overall war on screen real-estate requiring either absurdly small scaling which is not good for the eyes, or absurdly larger screens) it doesn't help justify the change. You (CCP) keep saying people are just upset because they don't like change, but then they make changes like this without a reason that appear just to be for the sake of change.

Also, CCP, way to not answer the actual question in yet another thread, gg.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2014-09-25 18:18:26 UTC
The tabs were much smaller and, while not necessarily "hard to find", for a newbro they were how shall we say... not exactly obvious.

The new buttons are much more obvious and thus "easy to find".

For example, overview tabs. I had no idea you could have more than one overview tab for several months if not a whole year.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Noriko Mai
#12 - 2014-09-26 13:36:27 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
The tabs were much smaller and, while not necessarily "hard to find", for a newbro they were how shall we say... not exactly obvious.

The new buttons are much more obvious and thus "easy to find".

For example, overview tabs. I had no idea you could have more than one overview tab for several months if not a whole year.

Hahaha. You totaly misunderstood the topic Big smileBig smile It's about the tabs in the station panel. The thing on the right side, while docked. With Agents and stuff.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2014-09-27 17:15:14 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
The tabs were much smaller and, while not necessarily "hard to find", for a newbro they were how shall we say... not exactly obvious.

The new buttons are much more obvious and thus "easy to find".

For example, overview tabs. I had no idea you could have more than one overview tab for several months if not a whole year.

Hahaha. You totaly misunderstood the topic Big smileBig smile It's about the tabs in the station panel. The thing on the right side, while docked. With Agents and stuff.


No I didn't. I know exactly what was being discussed. I was drawing a comparison between the old station tabs and the overview tabs as they are of similar size, and thus difficult to find.

There are many things about Eve that are difficult to find. This has been a barrier of entry to many new players for years. I'm glad to see CCP working on this.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2014-09-27 20:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Noriko Mai wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I mean these patch notes:

Quote:
  • New Eden has been made a better place by fixing a potential exploit.


This is a totaly normal patch note if they fixed some exploits. What do you want? A detailed explanation of the fixed exploit so everyone knows about it and can try to find a workaround for that fix?


So every patch notes with this message (without the "by fixing a potential exploit") is a fixed exploit? There's couple of them in recent patch history. And since when is security by obscurity acceptable?

And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#15 - 2014-09-27 21:54:14 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared.

This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm.

It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does.

New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!

An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#16 - 2014-09-28 01:52:27 UTC
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared.

This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm.

It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does.


This week there was a patch on Wednesday, which included only changes for DUST514 - see this announcement on the DUST website. The EVE client patch was necessary according to my knowledge to include text for new DUST items (which can be seen in the EVE client).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-09-28 10:23:08 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared.

This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm.

It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does.


This week there was a patch on Wednesday, which included only changes for DUST514 - see this announcement on the DUST website. The EVE client patch was necessary according to my knowledge to include text for new DUST items (which can be seen in the EVE client).


So this shpuld be in eve patchnotes "New Dust Items added to database" or whatever

Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#18 - 2014-09-28 12:28:26 UTC
i find it odd that they are fixing the phantasm's shield recharge rate bur not the rest of the sansha ships which have the same issue.. that and i did point it out when they rebalanced the pirate ships..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#19 - 2014-09-28 14:41:48 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And what about patches without patch notes all together? There was at least one occasion between June and August where my launcher patched my client, but a corresponding patch note never appeared.

This also happened this week as well (i believe)...it happens on a fairly regular basis atm.

It got better immediately after that whole 'lack of communication' deal after Incarna (?) where they actually started telling us when they were fixing things and changing stuff every single micro-patch. But it fell off like the flavor of the month always does.


This week there was a patch on Wednesday, which included only changes for DUST514 - see this announcement on the DUST website. The EVE client patch was necessary according to my knowledge to include text for new DUST items (which can be seen in the EVE client).


So this shpuld be in eve patchnotes "New Dust Items added to database" or whatever

CCP can you see part of where we are coming from now? Its not terribly hard to keep this even basic level of communication up. Heck you even told us in patch notes when you were fixing the tournament UI, but just completely forget to inform anyone of most minor changes.

But to the original point, CCP still hasn't given answer to the original question as per normal routine I guess, respond to other questions, which either have already been explained or aren't really important.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#20 - 2014-09-29 18:19:26 UTC
agreed i would like to see patch notes for bugfix patches, even if they are just an autogenerated commit log

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