Market Discussions

T2 bpos came first... therefore, invention is undermining them... as someone who was not around during the lottery and didn't own a T2 bpo until 2012... yet I still managed to make a trillion isk off of flipping them... what's your excuse? I'll continue to profit off of them while you sit back and whine and gnash teeth... but that ain't none of my business...

I made HILARILLIONS of ISK by reselling em.

You are not that stupid, you know the difference between facts and opinions, so let us not pretend otherwise.

We're not in General Discussion. There has been none of that in this thread. Why not keep it that way.

For myself, I just want what is best for the game.

We can all grow attached to our virtual assets, our characters, our corps, our alliances, whatever. But if the game dies then all of that goes with it.

I think that EVE's longevity is dependent on the sandbox. It's strength is in catering for a wide variety of interests and playstyles. Cutting out playstyles and forcing players to choose between a "variety" of similarly contrived grind mechanics is, I feel, the wrong way to go.

T2 BPOs are far from perfect, like pretty much everything in EVE. I'd say they need change, like pretty much everything in EVE. But I'd like to see that change be pro-sandbox and pro-EVE. I certainly don't think that whatever happens should be decided on the basis of forum whining of any kind. I'm concerned that CCP will do something stupid, because there are many examples of CCP doing stupid things, but I hope they do something clever, because there are also many examples of them doing clever things.

Time will tell, either way.

T2 BPOs were a dumb idea from the start.

That said, they are not going to suddenly go away, as people have spent time and isk acquiring t2 bpos over the years via fair practices. Invention is already nerfing t2 bpos, and the upcoming changes will make t2 bpos even less valuable. T2 bpos will always be profitable, but they won't continue to sell for tens or hundreds of billions of ISK based on a 5 or 10 year ROI. Some might continue to be collectible (Hulk BPO?) and maintain some decent value.

You might as well start arguing that patch speculation is illegitimate rather than eliminating t2 bpos, you'd probably have more traction.

Potentially they could sit there and individually tweak all of the BPOs to try to fit them into a niche, but why would they? Why would they put so much work into a deprecated system run by a handful of players? They nuked module reprocessing out of the game without much afterthought, which was a commonly used mechanic, so why would they think twice about nuking T2 BPOs? What is it that makes people think that T2 BPO owners are so deserving of special treatment?

The playstyle continues to exist in the form of T1 manufacture, since T2 BPOs are that exact same system with different materials.

Because it's their job. Because it will improve the game. Because leaving the game to go derelict is not a sensible option.

It doesn't matter if you remove T2 BPOs or leave them in. T2 needs rebalancing either way.

[EDIT] It's also worth noting that this kind of rebalancing is very "cheap" from a development point of view. The Devs have said as much themselves. I know that Grayscale's recent pass on tweaking every BPO in the game was a bit of a botch job, but all that was really lacking there was insight, the process was simple enough.

I don't know, you'll have to ask them.

That is pretty far from being true.

We've reached the stage where your posts are just inflamatory nonsense. So I'll drop out of this and pop back if you decide to post something coherent.

So the benefit is that the limitation on how many of these BPOs are in existence gives a permanent and unchallengeable benefit to the owner. Unlike active mechanics, there's no way to combat a T2 BPO. Invention can't be worked harder to beat a T2 BPO, so you are suggesting a mechanic which gives a benefit with no counter is a good thing?

Their job is to work on active mechanics, not tinker about with deprecated ones because a handful of people want to hang on to mechanics of the past. I'm sure there's people that wish loot spew was still here, but deprecated mechanics are deprecated, get over them. Removing T2 BPOs would allow invention to be pushed forward without having to stop and think "how will this affect or be affected by the few remaining T2 BPOs" at every turn.

And deleting all T2 BPOs is even cheaper. I'll write them the SQL statement myself for nowt if they want.

I'm not missing that at all, which is why I don't think any fucks should be given when they inevitably get destroyed. When the invention revamp comes around I very much hope they get turned into collectors items and nothing more, allowing invention to be toyed with as a complete mechanic.

And I don't need to do the math, I've done it several times. Like you said yourself before, the benefit isn't the profit margin, it's the consistent profitability of the item, which comes from there being no way for other players to counter it. At best, if another copy of the BPO exists, they can match it, but again, like you said, the production rate doesn't fill the demand (with the remainder filled by invention) so the existing BPO holder will be unaffected. So again, why is preserving a deprecated mechanic which provides a benefit with no possible counter a good thing?

By the way, I've been on the train for a long time.

Other methods of making more isk isn't a counter. By no counter, I mean that the advantage a T2 BPO owner gets, the guaranteed profit margin, it cannot be challenged by another player. At best it can be matched and only if another of the limited items exists. With T2 invention, you can bully someone else out of the market by filling the market with your goods at the lowest possible prices. You could never do this to a BPO owner as they will always have a lower price.

Removing T2 BPOs removes them as an added complication when deciding how to change T2 production methods. They should be removed from production and kept purely as a collectors item. There's no spite about it, they are simply outdated and should no longer exist.

I like the discussion that is going on. However i would like to add a few things to it. I do sence a small amoutn of hate towards the existance of T2 bpo's from you mr. Kell, and i wonder if this is coloring your point of view. As you have said; you are on the train for a long time. But this is EVE, minerals that you mine are free. Let my try to explain it on a simple, to be understandable (and for me to type) way. If there is a farmers market where 200 people want apples, where 170 apples are supplied by farmers (invention) and 30 by their workers (T2 bpo) who bought them cheaper and are reselling; Who is making up the price and who are shooting themselves in the foot? (this is a brain thinker)
You are complaining about the 0.1 isking game and all the tards that are falling for it. That is something substantialy differant!
(and you are also forgetting the t2 pvp loot sellers> buy order dumps > undercutting producers)
(Your claimes are adressed vs T2 bpo producers but i doubt you hvnt even thought about this one)

And what about the risk of investing? I do remember EVE being all about "Risk vs reward" > T2 bpo's value where going up and down following shipsbuff's, module changes, market manipulations and major fleet doctrine changes.
People didnt realised this, and it made reselling them very lucrative.

We are still taking about bought T2 bpo's not given ones (!!)

The cherry on the pie are these invention changes, to make it super clear:
Invention: Invest XXX amount > profit everymonth > after xxx years you build up a capital
Bought T2 bpo: Invest HUGH amount > Profit everymonth > Now -HUGH amount

At invention there is no risk at all... because on the long therm you have a 53% (succes rate), at T2 bpo you have risk of value deduction, which is now the case and the crated risk has ruind previous and future profit to come.

Ibf someone sais i need some english lessons or something: yes i know.