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Security Standings Hits for Acts of Anti-Piracy Make No Sense
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Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#1 - 2014-09-24 03:45:06 UTC
Why am I punished with a reduction in security status for engaging known pirates in low-security systems. Surely I should be rewarded for my actions in fighting criminals?

I am constantly mistaken for a pirate myself due to security standing hits I incur for doing good. This in turn effectively makes ME a criminal in the eyes of the law and I find myself being judged accordingly.

Where is my motivation to fight for justice if the authorities themselves are clearly so corrupted?

I should not be treated in the same manner as the rotten scum of New Eden.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Damon Messer
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-09-24 04:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Damon Messer
Lady Spank wrote:
pirates in low-security system.

just so we're clear, what is your definition of that term?

based on my limited understandings of the mechanics, criminal ≠ pirate
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#3 - 2014-09-24 04:20:04 UTC
That's the part that is hard to define but to split it...

1. A pilot with a negative standing below -5.0 should provide a security increase upon destruction.
2. A pilot with a negative standing above -5.0 ??? Let's leave this buffer as is for now considering it affects non criminals.
3. Criminal timer flagged pilots who are caught in the act should provide a security increase upon destruction.

This is loose theory and open to evaluation.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#4 - 2014-09-24 05:06:05 UTC
I like this idea.

It would be a cheap and easy way for suicide gankers to restore their security status by killing each other in low sec.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#5 - 2014-09-24 05:24:15 UTC
Good point. The standings gains would have to be weighted by a number of factors including personal security standing and value of destroyed assets.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-09-24 06:17:03 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Why am I punished with a reduction in security status for engaging known pirates in low-security systems. Surely I should be rewarded for my actions in fighting criminals?

I am constantly mistaken for a pirate myself due to security standing hits I incur for doing good. This in turn effectively makes ME a criminal in the eyes of the law and I find myself being judged accordingly.

Where is my motivation to fight for justice if the authorities themselves are clearly so corrupted?

I should not be treated in the same manner as the rotten scum of New Eden.


So do you tacle them, jam them, nuet them out and then what....? Fill their cargo holds full of candy? That's the anti-pirate way!

Hhhgggaaaarry.
Matius Udan
Padecains Exploration and Recon Inc
#7 - 2014-09-24 11:41:53 UTC
It does make sense - CONCORD dont think it is your job to take the law into your own hands. Just because you can shoot someone doesnt mean you should - it is quite evident EVE isnt all about killing others, there is so much more to it.
However, Sec standing loss shouldnt go up for the reasons already mentioned, but the loss could be removed if shooting a criminal making an actual career of enforcing the law. Maybe it could be tied to bounties so bounties are only placed on people with negative sec status and can only be claimed by people with positive status.
Of course some blancing will have to take place to make it fair that the neg sec status guys cant place a bounty (i know peole with think its their own fault - but this is still a game and it will still be balanced).
Black Pedro
Mine.
#8 - 2014-09-24 12:20:45 UTC
Matius Udan wrote:
It does make sense - CONCORD dont think it is your job to take the law into your own hands. Just because you can shoot someone doesnt mean you should - it is quite evident EVE isnt all about killing others, there is so much more to it.
However, Sec standing loss shouldnt go up for the reasons already mentioned, but the loss could be removed if shooting a criminal making an actual career of enforcing the law. Maybe it could be tied to bounties so bounties are only placed on people with negative sec status and can only be claimed by people with positive status.
Of course some blancing will have to take place to make it fair that the neg sec status guys cant place a bounty (i know peole with think its their own fault - but this is still a game and it will still be balanced).


Bounties only for negative status characters is not only unworkable, but is undesirable. Say I want to place a bounty on a positive sec status miner who prevents me from mining by mining out "my" ore or bumping me away from an asteroid? Or on a former member of my missioning corp who appropriates corporation assets or Awoxes the corp? Or on that ISK doubler that fails to deliver on the payout or that guy who margin trade scams me? All of these could happen even if both parties have positive security status, and would likely be said to be a good use of the system by even the most rabid carebear.

If you just prevent negative status characters form placing bounties, they will use alts, and why would that even make sense? A bounty is just a reward from one capsuleer to another payed out after demonstrable destruction of the targeted players assets and has nothing to do with security status. There are such things as evil, Boba Fett-style bounty hunters too. If you want to put in a new, law-enforcer career path into the game, you will need to look elsewhere than the bounty system.

I think the OP is referring to security status hit for engaging in combat in low-sec, even with negative security status players. Mitigating this for "honourable" low-sec PvPers is by the way, one of the main reasons tags-for-sec systems so maligned by the carebears was added to the game. I would assume that the same rules apply as in highsec though - if you are shooting an "outlaw" (-5 sec status and below) even in lowsec you do not take a security hit (yes, this is already in the game). If that is not the case, then I agree with the OP that doesn't make sense. But if they are just "known pirates" with a sec status above -5, then one could argue that the security status bureaucrats don't want capsuleers fighting in their space for any reason (it's too dangerous for the innocent bystanders!) unless the target has been officially declared an "outlaw", hence the security hit.




The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#9 - 2014-09-24 12:29:40 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
That's the part that is hard to define but to split it...

1. A pilot with a negative standing below -5.0 should provide a security increase upon destruction.
2. A pilot with a negative standing above -5.0 ??? Let's leave this buffer as is for now considering it affects non criminals.
3. Criminal timer flagged pilots who are caught in the act should provide a security increase upon destruction.

This is loose theory and open to evaluation.



Wait...I thought Outlaws (-5 or worse) gave you a sec bonus when you popped them (cuz they are, like, Outlaws.....)

Same with Criminals (flashy reds).

This is not so?

What the hell, CCP.

WHAT

What?

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#10 - 2014-09-24 12:54:20 UTC
While you can freely engage anyone -5, you do not get any sec status gain from doing so. I believe it would be nice to be rewarded for doing so.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#11 - 2014-09-24 13:24:25 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Why am I punished with a reduction in security status for engaging known pirates in low-security systems. Surely I should be rewarded for my actions in fighting criminals?

I am constantly mistaken for a pirate myself due to security standing hits I incur for doing good. This in turn effectively makes ME a criminal in the eyes of the law and I find myself being judged accordingly.

Where is my motivation to fight for justice if the authorities themselves are clearly so corrupted?

I should not be treated in the same manner as the rotten scum of New Eden.

You're not. "Known pirates" are those with -5.0 or lower sec status, those with a criminal flag, or those with a suspect flag. You can freely engage any of those without punishment from CONCORD. If you're engaging anyone who is not one of those things, even if you know that they have been in the past, that means that at that moment you are the pirate, not them, in the eyes of CONCORD.

How's it feel to be the rotten scum of New Eden? Blink


Having said that, I do find the idea of getting a sec status bonus for destroying the ship of a pilot with -5.0 or lower security status interesting. (I do not think it should apply to criminal flag or suspect flags, only security status.) If something like this were to be implemented, the amount gained would have to be calculated in the exact opposite manner as a sec status loss for engaging a non-criminal: based on the sec status of the system and the relative sec status of you and your target. Anything to do with ship value is handled in the bounty system, broken as it is.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Dsparil Mal
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-09-24 13:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dsparil Mal
Lady Spank wrote:
Why am I punished with a reduction in security status for engaging known pirates in low-security systems. Surely I should be rewarded for my actions in fighting criminals?

I am constantly mistaken for a pirate myself due to security standing hits I incur for doing good. This in turn effectively makes ME a criminal in the eyes of the law and I find myself being judged accordingly.

Where is my motivation to fight for justice if the authorities themselves are clearly so corrupted?

I should not be treated in the same manner as the rotten scum of New Eden.



Look at this! Pirate scum trying to play the victim card. How terribly un-unique. So what poor person did you gank? Might as well just tell us. The cat's out of the bag and you've been found out.

Erotica 1 for CSM 9!
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#13 - 2014-09-24 14:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Far too exploitable to bypass the tag system for sec gains.

Loose theory needs much tightening...with a large wrench...until the bolt is sheared...and the top half is kicked into a storm drain and lost forever.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#14 - 2014-09-24 14:39:10 UTC
We are here to tighten that theory. If we get anything promising it will be put to features and ideas, where we all know CCP will listen carefully :)

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Kaea Astridsson
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#15 - 2014-09-24 21:16:48 UTC
No sec-loss or gain engaging someone below 0 sec, sec gain engaging someone -5. No security gains while suspect/criminal flagged or below 0 sec. Gains based on same magic that does it for npcs. Only effective in empire space.

If someone does see exploits mention them, don't just say they exist. That doesn't help anyone.

Get on Comms, or die typing.
Paranoid Loyd
#16 - 2014-09-24 21:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
No sec-loss or gain engaging someone below 0 sec, sec gain engaging someone -5. No security gains while suspect/criminal flagged or below 0 sec. Gains based on same magic that does it for npcs. Only effective in empire space.


Don't see why this wouldn't work, sec status gains based on ship class and in line with NPC sec status gains and no gain for killing noob ships or shuttles.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-09-24 23:32:31 UTC
Kaea Astridsson wrote:
No sec-loss or gain engaging someone below 0 sec, sec gain engaging someone -5. No security gains while suspect/criminal flagged or below 0 sec. Gains based on same magic that does it for npcs. Only effective in empire space.

If someone does see exploits mention them, don't just say they exist. That doesn't help anyone.


Posting from my phone so forgive spelling.

Why should negative 10 players be forced to lose that sec status by attacking other low sec pvpers? This seems like needless punishment and removal of a status symbol in game.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

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Paranoid Loyd
#18 - 2014-09-25 00:02:53 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Why should negative 10 players be forced to lose that sec status by attacking other low sec pvpers? This seems like needless punishment and removal of a status symbol in game.


You meant gain sec status right? If so, good point. If not, wat?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-09-25 08:47:11 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Why should negative 10 players be forced to lose that sec status by attacking other low sec pvpers? This seems like needless punishment and removal of a status symbol in game.


You meant gain sec status right? If so, good point. If not, wat?

That's exactly what I meant. Many players worked hard to get to -10 sec status through low sec pvp or high sec ganking. Forcing those players to routinely pod positive sec status players to maintain their -10 is idiotic.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#20 - 2014-09-25 12:23:02 UTC
There is no benefit to maintaining neg ten other than ego or some vague faith in its psychological effect in targets. CCP shouldn't pander to this if it is to the detriment of a better system

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
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