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Buff Offensive Rigs

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Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#1 - 2011-12-11 20:27:44 UTC
Right now gunnery rigs, and specifically Damage/ROF rigs aren't worth the fitting requirements when compared to defensive/tanking rigs. Even if I move to a T2 ROF rig, the rig bandwidth requirements limit my tank to the point that it's not worth the increased DPS.

What brings this point up again is the reduced fitting requirements of blasters. This would be an advantage if a single Trimark could be dropped for a T2 Burst Aerator rig to gain a little DPS, but the rig fitting requirements are so high for a single T2 DPS rig that it's not worth the reduction in tank.

Additionally, I think that DPS rigs shouldn't incur stacking penalties when used in conjunction with damage mods. They improve too little for too much of a penalty. Rig choice should never be a "no brainer" as it is now. Everyone selects speed or tanking rigs (essentially the same thing) and completely ignore DPS rigs for PVP. All rigs should be good enough that it's a really tough choice choosing one over another.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#2 - 2011-12-11 20:32:29 UTC
You're doing it wrong....

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Jita Alt666
#3 - 2011-12-11 20:33:40 UTC
Lykouleon wrote:
You're doing it wrong....


Yeah. When there are logistics on grid with me I tend to favour DPS rigs.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#4 - 2011-12-11 20:37:49 UTC
I use DPS rigs all the time.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#5 - 2011-12-11 20:38:31 UTC
Especially on the BS level, I use damage rigs quite a bit. They could possibly use a slight buff to their bonuses (I sure wouldn't mind, at least) but having them not stacking penalized with damage mods would be ridiculous.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#6 - 2011-12-11 20:38:34 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Everyone selects speed or tanking rigs (essentially the same thing) and completely ignore DPS rigs for PVP. All rigs should be good enough that it's a really tough choice choosing one over another.

Not really, since speed rigs are stacking penalized with mods and each other - unlike fugly trimarks and CFDs.

But I agree overall - it's really a no-brainer.

Instead CCP decided that it was boosters which needed an overhaul Big smile

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-12-11 21:36:40 UTC
rigs do not function at all - it's not a customization, nothing changes...

stacking penalized, not worthy enough upgrades. Imho rigs directly modify ship's hull and core and thus must not be stacking penalized against modules.

Let speed rigs improve speed, stacking penalty on overdrives looks ridiculous. Penalized rigs are inferior - penalty, low total bonus, opportunity cost of not having tanking rigs.

The idea of rigs got compromised, take it back where it belongs - tuner's paradise (I should say EFT warrior's paradise)

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#8 - 2011-12-12 01:56:55 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I use DPS rigs all the time.


On what fits? For what use?

I'm having a hard time justifying the massive decrease in tank for a small increase in DPS in any of my armor tanking PVP fits.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#9 - 2011-12-12 02:16:13 UTC
I know this will sound obvious but if you need tank; tank. Not every situation calls for maximum rep or buffer. I know the kind of pew you tend to get up to though and presumably you are looking at the Hyperion again where rep rigs can be very appealing but aren't entirely necessary for all three rig slots. It's all down to personal opinion of course but throwing in a single burst or collision can balance out it's fitting, allowing you to use all low slots for tank.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#10 - 2011-12-12 02:27:53 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I know this will sound obvious but if you need tank; tank. Not every situation calls for maximum rep or buffer. I know the kind of pew you tend to get up to though and presumably you are looking at the Hyperion again where rep rigs can be very appealing but aren't entirely necessary for all three rig slots. It's all down to personal opinion of course but throwing in a single burst or collision can balance out it's fitting, allowing you to use all low slots for tank.


Okay, I'll be a little more literal. I mean, I really am trying to find a good situation where DPS rigs are equal or superior to tanking rigs, but so far it's just not happening.

Example: I fit a Navy Mega with Neutron IIs, standard mids, lows are 1x large rep, 2x EANM2, DC, 1600 RT plate and 3x Magstab IIs. I have enough grid to fit a ROF rig, but when I drop a Trimark for the DPS rig I lose a huge amount of EHP. To make matters worse, I have to drop TWO Trimarks to fit one DPS rig simply because the DPS rig fitting is so high I can't fit 3x rigs with one being a DPS rig.

This is a similar situation across all similar armor tanking ships. The cost of two or even one Trimark isn't worth the small DPS increase you get, even if you use a T2 ROF rig. It's simply not worth it.

So, my original question remains: When are DPS rigs viable? Why use them over Trimarks/other tanking rigs? I've never used DPS rigs in PVP since they've been introduced and I'm looking for way s to take advantage of the new fitting options due to the reduced grid/cpu requirements of blasters. So far I'm not impressed.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#11 - 2011-12-12 02:31:49 UTC
4th damage mod will always be a poor increase. Drop a MFS rather than the rig and see what that gives you to play with.

It doesn't help that trimarks, CDFE etc. don't stack, if anything that's what needs looking at.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-12-12 02:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Damage/ROF rigged Sabres, elutriation rigged Abaddons, Tengus with rigors (though that's used for ratting more often than not) - these are all common, and that's just scratching the surface.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#13 - 2011-12-12 02:46:45 UTC
Fly a HAM drake with EWAR, Gank rigs, and Honor for tank in a Cane Fleet. Nobody primaries the drake in the middle of a bunch of Canes.

Gank IS your tank.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#14 - 2011-12-12 03:06:05 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
4th damage mod will always be a poor increase. Drop a MFS rather than the rig and see what that gives you to play with.

It doesn't help that trimarks, CDFE etc. don't stack, if anything that's what needs looking at.


Dropping a MFS2 for an additional 1600 RT plate and adding 2x DPS rigs isn't as efficient as one MFS2 and 3x Trimarks and/or 2x rep amount / 1x rep cycle rig (for the Hype).

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#15 - 2011-12-12 03:19:49 UTC
It all depends on the ship. I'm very hesitant on fitting any armor tanking rigs on anything sub-BS. But then again, I fit all my armor tanking sub-BS as glass cannons.

Shield rigs are a different issue though...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#16 - 2011-12-12 03:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
I'm curious as to what rigs you'd put on a Talos?

Edit: Or any of the tier 3 BC's for that matter.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#17 - 2011-12-12 05:57:25 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm curious as to what rigs you'd put on a Talos?

Edit: Or any of the tier 3 BC's for that matter.


Ranger-

My play style in Eve is mostly solo low-sec piracy. While I've been exploring how to most effectively use the new BCs, so far their utility has been minimal. I'm hoping to try a blaster Talos and leverage it's faster lock speed to catch more/smaller targets. I'm also hoping the Tornado might do well with this too.

One interesting concept I'm looking at is using the Naga as an ultra fast locking sniper to kill frigs, pods and shuttles etc. It will be interesting to see how they work out.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#18 - 2011-12-12 06:15:34 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm curious as to what rigs you'd put on a Talos?

Edit: Or any of the tier 3 BC's for that matter.


A fit I've been working on-

Note that this is using max implants: full HG Slave set, +6% damage implants, tracking implants etc.

1078 DPS- overheated (guns only, planning on using ECM drones...)

Approx. 33K EHP with 23.2K of that being armor. Scan res is 288, top speed of 1378m/sec or so.

I have to see how this compares to other ships I fly but so far it has interesting DPS with almost no tank and it's fairly slow with ultra short range. I don't know if the lock speed will be enough to make a real difference. It's most interesting due to the lower cost of a loss due to less expensive rigs compared to a BS. I'm looking at a Tornado with ACs as well.


[Talos, Talos fit]

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L

10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I

Medium Armor Repairer II
Internal Force Field Array I
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#19 - 2011-12-12 06:37:23 UTC
A fit for the Tornado. Again, max implants. The advantage here is 500 scan res.

825 DPS with guns overheated, Much lower EHP- 25.1K with only 19.6K in armor. I reverted to 425mm ACs due to the larger guns requiring too many fitting mods and between the smaller guns and damage mods vs. the larger guns and fitting mods, the smaller guns had more DPS and better tracking with only a slight reduction in range.


[Tornado, Tornado fit copy]

Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution

Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Projectile Burst Aerator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#20 - 2011-12-12 06:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
All rigs should be good enough that it's a really tough choice choosing one over another.

That's like being able to fit any module to your ship and still have a chance to win. Why is there a difference between pve and pvp ships? I put modules on they all should be good enough that the choice choosing one over another shouldn't make a difference, wait a second, pvp ships should usually kill pve ships?? I don't understand!! I put modules on the ship and you say my pve ship will die?

You are thinking in the terms of a perfect world. Eve isn't perfect and you can't just put whatever on your ship and expect that it should do just as well. You know that, so why are rigs any different?
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