These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How much did you lose on your T2 bpo?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-09-21 22:10:49 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Don't get me started about this. I am litigating with another MMO's lead designer who has decided that the super-rare items I got in 12 years of playing should be re-introduced in game and made avaliable for everyone to farm in quantity.

He should be hired by CCP, he got the same bright ideas to make veterans quit the game as fast as possible.

sorry what

could we get a little more detail on this, what mmo and what exactly do you mean by "litigating"
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#22 - 2014-09-21 22:14:02 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I'd just like to be able to have a(n in-game) purpose.
What do you think of purposes like Gevlon trying to finance a war, or James 315 funding High-Sec ganking with their excess Isk?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#23 - 2014-09-21 22:14:26 UTC
please let it be "literally trying to sue in a court of law"
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#24 - 2014-09-21 22:17:12 UTC
as you can see your honor the defendant has clearly reneged on his promise to maintain the value of plaintiff's pixels stored on defendant's servers and furthermore
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#25 - 2014-09-21 22:19:58 UTC
as such i believe the desired damages of 10,000,000 everquest plat are reasonable and justified
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#26 - 2014-09-21 22:39:17 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Don't get me started about this. I am litigating with another MMO's lead designer who has decided that the super-rare items I got in 12 years of playing should be re-introduced in game and made avaliable for everyone to farm in quantity.

He should be hired by CCP, he got the same bright ideas to make veterans quit the game as fast as possible.

sorry what

could we get a little more detail on this, what mmo and what exactly do you mean by "litigating"


It's an ancient game (older than EvE) whose playerbase by now has shrunk enough that it's possible for a player to get a reply by a game designer. I have made its name in the past (and my EvE POSes are named after it) but now I feel like protecting its slow death so it'll happen in peace, without some EvE players going to troll them.


Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I'd just like to be able to have a(n in-game) purpose.
What do you think of purposes like Gevlon trying to finance a war, or James 315 funding High-Sec ganking with their excess Isk?


Been there, done that (on a smaller scale) and now I CBA doing it again.

BTW, if you are reading this (aimed to a MD guy, he knows who he is Twisted), my offer to $upport your alliance is still valid Lol

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#27 - 2014-09-22 04:47:48 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
The profitability of my collection is up 250% on pre-crius.
Is this due to an increase in production throughput, or profit margin?

A large amount of increased production throughput, a small amount of increased profit margin.

Prices are still falling though, so it's a very temporary buff.
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#28 - 2014-09-22 11:17:11 UTC
While we're at it anyway, looking at the history of game implenmentations, current ones and the plex prices; i think ccp's operation "Old isk cleansing" is well under way. If it isnt achievable by clothes, hyperinflation- & deflation by gamedesign will do the job $$ +1 for CCP!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#29 - 2014-09-22 14:47:41 UTC
Hey man, you dropped some tinfoil there.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#30 - 2014-09-22 16:27:26 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:
While we're at it anyway, looking at the history of game implenmentations, current ones and the plex prices; i think ccp's operation "Old isk cleansing" is well under way. If it isnt achievable by clothes, hyperinflation- & deflation by gamedesign will do the job $$ +1 for CCP!
I will see your tinfoil and raise you my diversified portfolio.
Wraymond Arji
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-09-22 17:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Wraymond Arji
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:

Dude, what the...

Ontopic, are people dumping their BPOs?


They do come up on contracts but people who own them have a very pregnant idea of what they are worth.

If you actually run the numbers then it will often take up to 10 years (real life) to pay for it. People think they are buying an isk printing machine, and they are, but they have to consider how long it will take to print the isk to cover the investment.... which they don't.

The situation has only become worse lately. Removing the copy bottle neck basically means that invention renders all T2 BPO's more or less irrelevant. The OP is moaning about this because they feel that this is not fair. But is is fair.... for 99.999999% of eve players. Owners of T2 BPO's are the exception.

I say ... Fk them. They've had their cake and ate it too... Now it's time to level the playing field and if they moan about it then it only causes me to smile. The op said that they lost 40bil in opportunity cost.

Good

Only sad that it wasn't 100 billion. I have no sympathy for him.

T-


The world is not a fair place, and EVE shouldn't be either. This attitude where everyone should be on the same level and have the same whatever is killing this game. If you want to have the most fun, fly the best ships, have the most isk, then you need to put the time and energy into building your empire to support it. Begging CCP to gut those who did in order to make your game easier because you couldn't be bothered to plan or prep to that level is flat out bullshizz IMO. I don't even have anything to that level. I just can't stand people who want to burn down others who planned, prepped and sacrificed a lot more than they did. You should instead be researching, planning, prepping and sacrificing the things you need to in order to work towards that level, not whining to daddy to eliminate that level since you're too lazy to do what's needed to get there and realize you won't get there because you don't have what it takes.....
Zahara Cody
Imperial Corrections Service.
#32 - 2014-09-23 07:49:19 UTC
Zero losses.

Hating is free, that's why poor people do it the best.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#33 - 2014-09-23 13:40:22 UTC
Wraymond Arji wrote:
The world is not a fair place, and EVE shouldn't be either. This attitude where everyone should be on the same level and have the same whatever is killing this game. If you want to have the most fun, fly the best ships, have the most isk, then you need to put the time and energy into building your empire to support it. Begging CCP to gut those who did in order to make your game easier because you couldn't be bothered to plan or prep to that level is flat out bullshizz IMO. I don't even have anything to that level. I just can't stand people who want to burn down others who planned, prepped and sacrificed a lot more than they did. You should instead be researching, planning, prepping and sacrificing the things you need to in order to work towards that level, not whining to daddy to eliminate that level since you're too lazy to do what's needed to get there and realize you won't get there because you don't have what it takes.....
Except that's not really how it went down. T2 BPOs were "randomly" distributed by GMs to their friends, then cancelled as an idea. At that point they should have been removed. They weren't so people have continued to trade them at ludicrous prices way above what they can make and now there's tears because the redundant system they were basing all of their profit on is going to come crashing down.

And the thing is, noone is saying things should be fair as in "everyone must have the same stuff", but it should be fair as in "everyone should be able to work to achieve the same". I bet you weren't complaining when the fac five were being stripped of LP, isk and items for what was at the time of their execution not an exploit. In the same way, CCP should just get rid of T2 BPOs. Some people will lose out, sure, but that's tough luck for investing in illegitimate and deprecated items.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-09-23 15:46:59 UTC
I didn't... sold my T2 BPO' at least 18 months ago.

Folks need to pay attention to "little things", like keynote speechs, dev blogs and CSM minutes, and to always expect CHANGE in this game. Nothing lasts forever.

Anyone selling a T2 BPO now is just hoping the "illiterazzi" hasn't been keeping up on those changes. One born every minute. Twisted

BUT, if you can wait until T2 BPO's truly bottom out, and their value aligns with the "new reality" of T2 industry... then you'll cash in.

Caveat Emptor


"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Wraymond Arji
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-09-23 17:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Wraymond Arji
Lucas Kell wrote:
Wraymond Arji wrote:
The world is not a fair place, and EVE shouldn't be either. This attitude where everyone should be on the same level and have the same whatever is killing this game. If you want to have the most fun, fly the best ships, have the most isk, then you need to put the time and energy into building your empire to support it. Begging CCP to gut those who did in order to make your game easier because you couldn't be bothered to plan or prep to that level is flat out bullshizz IMO. I don't even have anything to that level. I just can't stand people who want to burn down others who planned, prepped and sacrificed a lot more than they did. You should instead be researching, planning, prepping and sacrificing the things you need to in order to work towards that level, not whining to daddy to eliminate that level since you're too lazy to do what's needed to get there and realize you won't get there because you don't have what it takes.....
Except that's not really how it went down. T2 BPOs were "randomly" distributed by GMs to their friends, then cancelled as an idea. At that point they should have been removed. They weren't so people have continued to trade them at ludicrous prices way above what they can make and now there's tears because the redundant system they were basing all of their profit on is going to come crashing down.

And the thing is, noone is saying things should be fair as in "everyone must have the same stuff", but it should be fair as in "everyone should be able to work to achieve the same". I bet you weren't complaining when the fac five were being stripped of LP, isk and items for what was at the time of their execution not an exploit. In the same way, CCP should just get rid of T2 BPOs. Some people will lose out, sure, but that's tough luck for investing in illegitimate and deprecated items.


The BPOs were left in the game, arguing that people who have them are baddies for going that legitimate route is nonsensical. Also, as for your comparison to others losing stuff, I don't even know who you're talking about, but I will state that the same logic I mentioned above should apply. If something wasn't a declared exploit then people who did it up until the point it was declared should not be punished. I agree with you on that front. You seem to be picking and choosing your POV based on personal feelings and applying opposing sides on a case to case basis, then projecting that flaw onto me. Don't do that, it makes you look like a tool. Also, I'm aware of how the original T2 BPO distribution occurred, I played this game at that time, though on older characters I no longer have. That was CCP's fault, not the fault of the people who own the prints after what, 5-6 years worth of how ever many sales they went through.

My point was that people need to stop trying to destroy anything they either can't figure out, or are too lazy to try and figure out. Being glad someone lost billions of isk and hoping it was multitudes more is a very bad way to approach things. If people can't figure out how useless a BPO is then they have no business with it to begin with. That will most likely lead to the loss of a lot of isk. Some people are smarter and can figure out how to profit off of some of them where it is worth while and they should be able to do so. Lazy underachievers coming out of left field doing everything they can do to burn down the entire arena where that takes place isn't cool. You want a fight in that arena then get in the fight, look for investors to help with the buy-in and if you're a good fighter then you will find a few. Don't try to have the arena closed down because you couldn't afford the buy-in and were unable to figure out how to find investors.....
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#36 - 2014-09-23 18:08:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
Wraymond Arji wrote:



The world is not a fair place, and EVE shouldn't be either. This attitude where everyone should be on the same level and have the same whatever is killing this game. If you want to have the most fun, fly the best ships, have the most isk, then you need to put the time and energy into building your empire to support it. Begging CCP to gut those who did in order to make your game easier because you couldn't be bothered to plan or prep to that level is flat out bullshizz IMO. I don't even have anything to that level. I just can't stand people who want to burn down others who planned, prepped and sacrificed a lot more than they did. You should instead be researching, planning, prepping and sacrificing the things you need to in order to work towards that level, not whining to daddy to eliminate that level since you're too lazy to do what's needed to get there and realize you won't get there because you don't have what it takes.....


I basically agree with you.

Where we don't agree is on the planning part. Owners of T2 BPO's don't have to plan and that's what contributed to an indy elite at one point. The discussion has become irrelevant by fixing invention but that's the history in a nutshell.

In short, however, I agree with you. I agree that the game would be diminished if everything were equal. To me, however, it's more like a soccer match with no rules. Everyone is after the same ball but one team may field 90 players who are highly skilled and highly experienced and another team may field a team of 6 consisting of armpit scratching escapees from the cretin factory who are one cycle of evolution removed from orangutans. Everything working as intended. So don't get me wrong.

However... and this is the point with respect to T2 BPO's, I believe that every team, no matter when they started playing EVE should have the same potential end-game in sight as all other teams. Of course they have to earn it, of course they have to want it, of course they have to work for it. But that's not the case with T2 BPO's. Either you got one in the lottery (or the dev fraud) or you didn't.

Now... this discussion is more or less moot now that invention has been more or less fixed. What I meant in my last post is that devs shouldn't pay any attention at all to the effects of changes to invention on holders of T2 BPO's. The focus should be on making invention work in an optimal manner. If someone holding a T2 BPO feels disadvantaged by some change (as the op did) then they can start doing invention as far as I'm concerned. Not one fibre in my being feels the least bit inclined to take their moaning seriously.

The flip side is also true. As long as the devs keep focusing on making industry work for players that started playing after the T2 lottery, I don't care if a few people who actually hold T2 BPO's are better off. If that's the case then I would suspect that anyone doing invention will be better off as well. That's a "level enough" playing field for me. I don't think CCP needs to take any action to *disadvantage* holders of BPOs. I think they should completely ignore them.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.

T-
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#37 - 2014-09-23 22:06:59 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:

However... and this is the point with respect to T2 BPO's, I believe that every team, no matter when they started playing EVE should have the same potential end-game in sight as all other teams. Of course they have to earn it, of course they have to want it, of course they have to work for it. But that's not the case with T2 BPO's. Either you got one in the lottery (or the dev fraud) or you didn't.


BPOs are not "Bind on Pickup". You could buy them and get "the same potential end-game" etc. etc.
Many who started playing well past T2 BPOs lottery had been "phased out" still got their BPOs fill.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#38 - 2014-09-24 04:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
The first person to make use of an exploit shouldn't be punished, sounds great.

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#39 - 2014-09-24 05:12:32 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:

However... and this is the point with respect to T2 BPO's, I believe that every team, no matter when they started playing EVE should have the same potential end-game in sight as all other teams. Of course they have to earn it, of course they have to want it, of course they have to work for it. But that's not the case with T2 BPO's. Either you got one in the lottery (or the dev fraud) or you didn't.


BPOs are not "Bind on Pickup". You could buy them and get "the same potential end-game" etc. etc.
Many who started playing well past T2 BPOs lottery had been "phased out" still got their BPOs fill.

+1

I bought my T2 BPOs from contracts and forum sales. Anyone else could have done the same.

I was around when the lottery was happening, but I was a fairly new and casual player and wasn't paying attention.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#40 - 2014-09-24 07:31:37 UTC
Wraymond Arji wrote:
The BPOs were left in the game, arguing that people who have them are baddies for going that legitimate route is nonsensical. Also, as for your comparison to others losing stuff, I don't even know who you're talking about, but I will state that the same logic I mentioned above should apply. If something wasn't a declared exploit then people who did it up until the point it was declared should not be punished. I agree with you on that front. You seem to be picking and choosing your POV based on personal feelings and applying opposing sides on a case to case basis, then projecting that flaw onto me. Don't do that, it makes you look like a tool. Also, I'm aware of how the original T2 BPO distribution occurred, I played this game at that time, though on older characters I no longer have. That was CCP's fault, not the fault of the people who own the prints after what, 5-6 years worth of how ever many sales they went through.
It was the goons faction five guys. They manipulated the price of FW rewards to make trillions of isk. When it was all removed there was mass cheering. and honestly, I don't care if it's the current owners fault or not, the fact that they still exist is a burden on the legitimate systems of T2 production and they should be removed. Go whining to a police officer when stolen goods that you bought in good faith get removed from you.

Wraymond Arji wrote:
My point was that people need to stop trying to destroy anything they either can't figure out, or are too lazy to try and figure out. Being glad someone lost billions of isk and hoping it was multitudes more is a very bad way to approach things. If people can't figure out how useless a BPO is then they have no business with it to begin with. That will most likely lead to the loss of a lot of isk. Some people are smarter and can figure out how to profit off of some of them where it is worth while and they should be able to do so. Lazy underachievers coming out of left field doing everything they can do to burn down the entire arena where that takes place isn't cool. You want a fight in that arena then get in the fight, look for investors to help with the buy-in and if you're a good fighter then you will find a few. Don't try to have the arena closed down because you couldn't afford the buy-in and were unable to figure out how to find investors.....
I can figure it out though. I'm not here just chanting "T2 BPOs must go because I've not chose n to buy any". T2 BPOs undermine the whole point of the invention system, it's a shortcut in the process because they should not have existed since the moment invention was put in place. Inevitably they are going to either go completely or become totally useless, outclassed in every way by invention, and until that happens I too will laugh and with more badness on idiots still trying to value them out at over 10 years profit margins, purely for the entertainment of it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.