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Holding corps, shares, what?
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Miri Draconis

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 9

#1 - 2014-09-23 16:37:03 UTC

Okay, so I'm not a total newbie. But this is an area of EVE I've never been involved with, and thus never understood. I've read stories of alliances being taken over or disbanded by someone in the holding corp. I want to know how this works, though.

I assume this can only be done if they have one or more shares, and vote for more shares to themselves, and then take control?

Why would you have more than 1 person in the holding corp?

Why would these people have shares?

Other than spreading workload, is there a reason? I'm just seeing a security risk.

Gizznitt Malikite

Agony Unleashed

Agony Empire

Likes received: 4,267

#2 - 2014-09-23 17:12:24 UTC

1.) The Alliance executor is the CEO of the executor corp and can be overthrown. The executor corp may be changed by a vote where the winner receives support from 50% of the corps in the alliance.

2.) Within a corp, the CEO may be overthrown. Any member of the corp with 5% or more of the corp shares may start a vote for CEO. If they win the vote with the majority of voted shares, they will become CEO. Furthermore, corps are created with 1000 shares in the corp wallet. Anyone with access to this wallet can claim those shares for themselves. Anyone with director roles can also vote to create more corp shares to be placed in the corp wallet. They could then claim the majority of shares, start a CEO vote, and take over.

So, there are several means to take control of an alliance.

Tau Cabalander

Retirement Retreat

Working Stiffs

Likes received: 6,913

#3 - 2014-09-23 17:23:26 UTC | Edited by: Tau Cabalander

"Holding-corps" hold sovereignty, and often outposts, for an alliance, and pay the related bills. They are not always the executor corp that controls the alliance, as that can be changed via a vote. ie. you don't want to risk sov changing hands when the executor corp changes. Executor corps are often regular corps (i.e. may contain spais).

Everyone in a holding corp is a director, hence they have few members, and are absolutely trusted. That's whole point of a holding-corp: the members can do (almost) everything the CEO can do, in case the CEO is not around.

Directors can start a vote to create more shares, and distribute the shares to anyone.

Only cast votes matter. You can win a vote with 1 share.

To get sov from a holding-corp, you either have to infiltrate the corp, or be a CEO / director in the executor corp and kick the holding corp from the alliance, causing sov the holding-corp held to drop, and retake sov in all the systems affected.

Example:

Brave Collective (11,338 members)
* Executor Corp: Brave Holdings (8 members)
* Holding Corp: Tactical Logistics Squadron (8 members)

There are exceptions to every rule though...

Goonswarm Federation (11,640 members)
* Executor Corp: DJ's Retirement Fund (23 members)
* Holding Corp: GoonWaffe, (2576 members, CEO The Mitanni)
The Mitanni openly admits that he is rarely in-game, so he is more of a figurehead in the CEO position.

Summer Isle

Autumn Industrial Enterprises

Likes received: 182

#4 - 2014-09-23 19:04:52 UTC

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

If they win the vote with the majority of voted shares, they will become CEO.

Tau Cabalander wrote:

Only cast votes matter. You can win a vote with 1 share.

I'm quoting a rather pertinent part from both Gizznitt and Tau due to how critical it is to understand this part: It doesn't matter if you have 100 share or 100,000,000 shares, the only shares that matter in a vote are the shares that vote. If one person holds 5% of your corps' shares and another holds 95%, and the person with 5% initiates a vote, this person can, with only 5% of the shares, overthrow the person with 95% simply because the other person didn't vote.

It isn't unheard of that a CEO or other majority shareholder goes on vacation, announcing it to the corp, and that a minority shareholder or a Director take advantage of the person's vacation to oust them without any real form of competition.

Treat your corp's shares and Director roles as you would treat the keys to your house: If you wouldn't trust the person to have free access to everything you have, then don't trust them with access.

Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.

Absolutely Not Analt

Carebears on Fire

Viral Society

Likes received: 185

#5 - 2014-09-23 20:18:18 UTC

Here's a question.

What if a vote is initiated, and no one with shares votes? Is it passed, auto failed?

For example, let's say a director institutes a vote to create more shares, but no one with any shares does anything at all?

Eve is a multi player game. And you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin Being meh at two things is not better than being great at one. - Lugh Crow-Slave


Miri Draconis Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 9	#6 - 2014-09-23 21:57:44 UTC Thanks for answering the questions I posed, Tau. I'm aware of the general mechanics and don't need them regurgitated, what I was interested in was why you'd have more than 1 person in power in such a key, vulnerable role. It seems it really just is a question of work(load).

J'Poll

MUSE LLP

RAZOR Alliance

Likes received: 6,455

#7 - 2014-09-23 22:57:32 UTC

Miri Draconis wrote:

Thanks for answering the questions I posed, Tau. I'm aware of the general mechanics and don't need them regurgitated, what I was interested in was why you'd have more than 1 person in power in such a key, vulnerable role. It seems it really just is a question of work(load).

It is.

Usually it's people from different timezones etc that can act if needed.

Say your alliance leader is from the US, it's not uncommon that he has a Number 1 in both AU and EU timezones, as when he is asleep / work / what ever, they can act on his behalf.

Now, thefts happen, but it only happens to those that trust a person they should not trust in the first place (either with shares or director roles). Get the right people in the right place and it's not that dangerous, but it will be hard to find the right people and then the right place for them.

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