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Dodging Wardecs

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1361 - 2014-09-22 17:32:39 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
thankfully CCP wants no part of it.

guess that's why crius introduced the 7-day timer before a new corp can erect a tower oh wait
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1362 - 2014-09-22 17:34:03 UTC
Trixie Lawless wrote:
You are just assuming because you are a OMGWHATISPVPBABYDONTHURTME carebear.
Related to what I said above. He's assuming because he has to. If he admitted the possibility that it isn't what he thinks it is, his whole worldview unravels.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1363 - 2014-09-22 17:35:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
changing game mechanics so you can slaughter noobs isnt...

... isn't the point of the thread. so why bring it up?


We know, but people like that have to cling to the idea the same way people cling to the idea that proper balancing of anything = "you just want me to play your way/you just want me to have to move out of high sec so you will have easy targets".

People lie like this to themselves all the time to spare their egos. That's why they respond with disbelief when actual PVE players (like me) advocate for reasonable balance measures because that just can't be. NO, it must be that people want easy kills, because if that's not way, then their whole way of thinking turns out to be wrong, and that just can't happen! lol.


Your PvE involving capital ships in nullsec is irrelevent to the new players looking to safely do PvE in highsec without getting massacred in wars. Nerfing NPC corps, or forcing 1-man corps into wars is designed to get these people killed and has nothing to do with game balance. Just leave them alone - they aren't hurting you. If you want to kill them so badly go suicide gank them. There is no reason to fundamentally change game mechanics to force new highsec players into PvP without CONCORD assistance against wardecc spammers, especially when said highsec players specifically choose to be in NPC or 1-man corps, and live in highsec, to avoid that eventuality.
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1364 - 2014-09-22 17:37:04 UTC
You're right, they don't want any part of it. But it can also be an opportunity for that little one man corp. What if he logs in and sees the wardec and says "badass dude, let's do this"?

I agree he should have the right to fold shop, but I also agree the aggressor can dec him for whatever reason they want. You ever think that mass wardecs along with dodging can actually work together? (I just thought of this so bear with me...)

Say a corp decs 50 other corps and 35 of them dodge, 3 are just afk with a super long skill, 6 decide to actively fight, 5 try to dodge using actual tactics, and 1 corp decides to give it a try because they thought they wouldn't get the opportunity to pvp and find out they love it.

The cost may suck for the aggressor, but in the long run that was isk well spent because now there is another corp wanting to play the game as it was intended....by blowing each other up.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1365 - 2014-09-22 17:37:17 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
thankfully CCP wants no part of it.

guess that's why crius introduced the 7-day timer before a new corp can erect a tower oh wait


Good. Corps that want to operate a POS, have a presence, recruit, etc.... need to be able to defend themselves in wars. I 100% agree with that. Individual players who just want to live in NPC corps or 1-man corps and avoid wars, and to avail themselves of CONCORD assistance in highsec, should be able to do so as well. People who don't want the upside of established corps should not be saddled with the downsides either. And that CCP rightly supports.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1366 - 2014-09-22 17:39:23 UTC
Trixie Lawless wrote:
You're right, they don't want any part of it. But it can also be an opportunity for that little one man corp. What if he logs in and sees the wardec and says "badass dude, let's do this"?

I agree he should have the right to fold shop, but I also agree the aggressor can dec him for whatever reason they want. You ever think that mass wardecs along with dodging can actually work together? (I just thought of this so bear with me...)

Say a corp decs 50 other corps and 35 of them dodge, 3 are just afk with a super long skill, 6 decide to actively fight, 5 try to dodge using actual tactics, and 1 corp decides to give it a try because they thought they wouldn't get the opportunity to pvp and find out they love it.

The cost may suck for the aggressor, but in the long run that was isk well spent because now there is another corp wanting to play the game as it was intended....by blowing each other up.


Ya, I'm totally fine with that. I think the current mechanics work. I think spamming wardeccs is fine, just like dropping corp is. Some targets drop corp, some dock up, and some fight - which is a perfectly reasonable outcome. Just like I disagree with the OP and others who want to force people into wars, I also disagree with the posters who want to limit wardeccs and arbitrarily shield highsec corps from wars. The mechanics already strike the right balance, and CCP did a good job with them.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1367 - 2014-09-22 17:42:32 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Corps that want to operate a POS, have a presence, recruit,

, avoid taxes,
Veers Belvar wrote:
... need to be able to defend themselves in wars. I 100% agree with that.

you forgot dodging taxes. the taxes you pay for the advantage of avoiding wars
Veers Belvar wrote:
Individual players who just want to live in NPC corps or 1-man corps and avoid wars, and to avail themselves of CONCORD assistance in highsec, should be able to do so as well.

veers no
Veers Belvar wrote:
People who don't want the upside of established corps should not be saddled with the downsides either.

what's with the double-standard veers
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#1368 - 2014-09-22 17:43:30 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

You guys need to pull your heads out of your anal orfices.


I think you somehow didnt read part of the post you were quoting, so I'll repeat it on behalf of Jenn Aside:

Quote:
A sandbox game doesn't mean you get to do what you want, it means EVERYONE gets to do what they want, and some people want to shut you down.


THAT my friend in the NPC corp and thus doesnt have a dog in this argument, is what the pvp-adverse have to accept. You can cry and whine all you want about your $15, you pay $15 to play a sandbox game, and as said above, that means EVERYONE gets to play like they like, not just you.

Not that you need to worry about it, being in the State War Academy and all. I'm sure theyre training you to be a real badass. Roll


Are you really that ignorant to belive I dont have other accounts? Again this is a game bottom line. I pay and I play how I want. When I cant play how I want then I stop paying. I earn nothing. I pay for a service nothing more.

Yes it is just that simple.
Trixie Lawless
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1369 - 2014-09-22 17:45:18 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Trixie Lawless wrote:
You're right, they don't want any part of it. But it can also be an opportunity for that little one man corp. What if he logs in and sees the wardec and says "badass dude, let's do this"?

I agree he should have the right to fold shop, but I also agree the aggressor can dec him for whatever reason they want. You ever think that mass wardecs along with dodging can actually work together? (I just thought of this so bear with me...)

Say a corp decs 50 other corps and 35 of them dodge, 3 are just afk with a super long skill, 6 decide to actively fight, 5 try to dodge using actual tactics, and 1 corp decides to give it a try because they thought they wouldn't get the opportunity to pvp and find out they love it.

The cost may suck for the aggressor, but in the long run that was isk well spent because now there is another corp wanting to play the game as it was intended....by blowing each other up.


Ya, I'm totally fine with that. I think the current mechanics work. I think spamming wardeccs is fine, just like dropping corp is. Some targets drop corp, some dock up, and some fight - which is a perfectly reasonable outcome. Just like I disagree with the OP and others who want to force people into wars, I also disagree with the posters who want to limit wardeccs and arbitrarily shield highsec corps from wars. The mechanics already strike the right balance, and CCP did a good job with them.


I guess what I meant with that post before I rambled...is don't be an asshat to pvpers because honestly they are doing it right. If you spend all your time shooting little red crosses and stressing over isk/hour... You're failing.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1370 - 2014-09-22 17:47:08 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
actual PVE players (like me)


Your PvE involving capital ships in nullsec is irrelevent

jenn is a highsec mission runner and you make too many assumptions
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#1371 - 2014-09-22 17:50:06 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Are you really that ignorant to belive I dont have other accounts?


Oh, so you're posting on an alt. Isn't that quaint.

Quote:

Again this is a game bottom line. I pay and I play how I want. When I cant play how I want then I stop paying. I earn nothing. I pay for a service nothing more.

Yes it is just that simple.


That's fine. Just be aware that other people are allowed to play how they want, too, and at some point some of them may go after you. At that point it's up to you if you want to continue to play. Works the same for everyone.


\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1372 - 2014-09-22 17:52:26 UTC
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Are you really that ignorant to belive I dont have other accounts?


Oh, so you're posting on an alt. Isn't that quaint.

his character's name was a reference to anal insertion before it was changed, he's posted the same garbage for years, and he's either a very committed troll or so far gone you'll never reach him
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1373 - 2014-09-22 17:54:40 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
actual PVE players (like me)


Your PvE involving capital ships in nullsec is irrelevent

jenn is a highsec mission runner and you make too many assumptions


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5025813#post5025813

I've been called a lot of names here, but thankfully few have questioned my unfailing accuracy. I make a point of knowing things - not assuming them.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1374 - 2014-09-22 17:56:09 UTC
Trixie Lawless wrote:


I guess what I meant with that post before I rambled...is don't be an asshat to pvpers because honestly they are doing it right. If you spend all your time shooting little red crosses and stressing over isk/hour... You're failing.


There isn't really a right and a wrong. It's about having fun - and I find shooting incursion crosses with other people to be a lot of fun. Some people find PvP a lot of fun. Eve is big enough for everyone. What we don't need is to butcher the game mechanics to force everyone in highsec into wars they don't want.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#1375 - 2014-09-22 17:57:52 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
actual PVE players (like me)


Your PvE involving capital ships in nullsec is irrelevent

jenn is a highsec mission runner and you make too many assumptions


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5025813#post5025813

I've been called a lot of names here, but thankfully few have questioned my unfailing accuracy. I make a point of knowing things - not assuming them.

ha! love it,
veers ,
you would be dangerous if you were half as clever as you think you are.






to whom though is the questionBlink

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1376 - 2014-09-22 17:58:48 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Corps that want to operate a POS, have a presence, recruit,

, avoid taxes,
Veers Belvar wrote:
... need to be able to defend themselves in wars. I 100% agree with that.

you forgot dodging taxes. the taxes you pay for the advantage of avoiding wars
Veers Belvar wrote:
Individual players who just want to live in NPC corps or 1-man corps and avoid wars, and to avail themselves of CONCORD assistance in highsec, should be able to do so as well.

veers no
Veers Belvar wrote:
People who don't want the upside of established corps should not be saddled with the downsides either.

what's with the double-standard veers



I happen to think the whole NPC tax thing is messed up. Only rewards are taxed - not mining, manufacturing, trading, scamming, etc... And remember that 1 man corps are susceptible to wars, they just have the right, like all corps do, to disband. The NPC taxes completely protect you from wardeccs, and give you access to the NPC chat channel, which happens to be a valuable resource. So 1-man corps are already paying a decent price to avoid the 11% taxes on a few activities. The point is that the system works - there is absolutely no reason to change it.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1377 - 2014-09-22 17:59:07 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:

Your PvE involving capital ships in nullsec


This here proves my point. You have to believe that I and others have some kind of agenda instead of haivng a real concern for the game we play. I don't pve with capital ships in null. I pve with my Machariel in high sec and with a machariel and Typphoon fleet Issue in null. The only time I use capitals for pve is in low sec blitzing lvl 5 missions.


Quote:

is irrelevent to the new players looking to safely do PvE in highsec without getting massacred in wars. Nerfing NPC corps, or forcing 1-man corps into wars is designed to get these people killed and has nothing to do with game balance. Just leave them alone - they aren't hurting you. If you want to kill them so badly go suicide gank them. There is no reason to fundamentally change game mechanics to force new highsec players into PvP without CONCORD assistance against wardecc spammers, especially when said highsec players specifically choose to be in NPC or 1-man corps, and live in highsec, to avoid that eventuality.


i quoted the above because it's plain to see here the psychological defense mechanisms you are throwing up to deny realizing a painful truth. I even bolded one of them: No, they aren't 'hurting' me. A bad game mechanic 'hurts' the game.

The part about 'CONCORD assistance' tells the true story here. You've posted time and again that you (paraphrasing) 'prefer to pve in high sec knowing that you have CONCORD assistance against unwanted pvp'. Your goal here isn't some altruistic idea of stopping those bad guy PVP'rs from 'victimizing' innocent pve players, it's to maintain your own imbalanced gameplay privilege.

My corp is a small one too, and focused on PVE. I don't like war decs, they complicate matters, and the ability to fold my corp and reform with minimal cost BENEFITS me (though I have never done so). Yet, even as someone who benefits from a thing, I am honest enough to point out that it is indeed a bad mechanic and wrong for the game.

I think more mature gamers (and people in general) are able to look past self interest to see the great good in a situation. You do not seem to.
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1378 - 2014-09-22 18:00:41 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
actual PVE players (like me)


Your PvE involving capital ships in nullsec is irrelevent

jenn is a highsec mission runner and you make too many assumptions


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5025813#post5025813

I've been called a lot of names here, but thankfully few have questioned my unfailing accuracy. I make a point of knowing things - not assuming them.

ha! love it,
veers ,
you would be dangerous if you were half as clever as you think you are.






to whom though is the questionBlink



Yes - as Jenn put it

"Nowadays i use the same characters to roflstomp faction warfare missions in a small personal stealth bomber swarm, I have 2 of those same characters in a wormhole corp that does those monstrous cap escalations, and I keep a number of carriers in lvl 5 mission hubs (so I don't have to cyno around) to do lvl 5 missions. If the pve doesn't pay at least 350 mil an hour (ie 1 plex in less than 3 hours), I don't do it lol."

Compare that to "Jenn is a highsec mission runner"

We report - you decide!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1379 - 2014-09-22 18:02:38 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
actual PVE players (like me)


Your PvE involving capital ships in nullsec is irrelevent

jenn is a highsec mission runner and you make too many assumptions


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5025813#post5025813

I've been called a lot of names here, but thankfully few have questioned my unfailing accuracy. I make a point of knowing things - not assuming them.

doesn't change the fact, you goose. jenn is a highsec mission runner.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#1380 - 2014-09-22 18:10:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Darek Castigatus
Veers Belvar wrote:


Yes - as Jenn put it

"Nowadays i use the same characters to roflstomp faction warfare missions in a small personal stealth bomber swarm, I have 2 of those same characters in a wormhole corp that does those monstrous cap escalations, and I keep a number of carriers in lvl 5 mission hubs (so I don't have to cyno around) to do lvl 5 missions. If the pve doesn't pay at least 350 mil an hour (ie 1 plex in less than 3 hours), I don't do it lol."

Compare that to "Jenn is a highsec mission runner"

We report - you decide!



Does a pilot run missions in high sec, if yes then that pilot is a highsec mission runner. That doesnt stop them also being a nullsec PvE pilot or a faction warfare member. (In case you're being a bit slow Veers Jenn is all three of those things)

You're getting hung up on definitions and ignoring the actual issue again.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome